Super sensitive steering?

[Greenbean]

Originally Posted by Mr.ac

I see what you did there. Sly dog.
Let me rephrase that, any modern mini van. In the last 5-6 years. Given there was only 2 '17's and numbers where impressive.



I track a freaking MR2 Turbo. Heard of it? Coming from that yes it actually has better steering than the 86.

You are just a negative nancy that cant stand the fact that your cheap BRZ/FRS/86 has better steering than your obvious god fearing TURBO MR2 lol.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by rvoll

I just don't know what you mean by "connected".

To me connected is a purely feel term, not quantifiable and hard to explain (English is not my first language btw).

I haven't had the opportunity to have driven as many sports cars as you over the last few decades, but at the very least a few things I found much more "connected" were cable throttle, hydraulic steering, and 4 wheel double wishbone suspension. The two cars I drove almost daily when I was much younger in the 90's was a '96 Integra and a '89 Accord both fully stock. The BRZ is much more quiet and well sorted ride than those two, yet I much prefer the former. The drive by wire throttle and electric steering just don't feel the same. NVH in car development has gone to the point where maybe it just gotten too good.

As I got older I've had a chance to drive a 986 Boxster and 996 Carrera 4 and I found both cars to be terrible with both steering and shifting, and felt stupidly heavy when cornering yet with almost no body roll. I also have short legs and Asian physique so maybe I'm just not a German car guy. To me precision and even MSRP have nothing to do with the connected feel per se.

If there is a deadstock Honda Integra DC2 Type R I would gladly trade my BRZ for it in a heartbeat, even tho the BRZ is technically a MUCH better performer in a lot of ways.

[Mr.ac]

Originally Posted by Greenbean

You are just a negative nancy that cant stand the fact that your cheap BRZ/FRS/86 has better steering than your obvious god fearing TURBO MR2 lol.

Wut?,
Might want to read what I wrote. It's the other way around just in case you missed it.
But I'm glad you realized the 86 is a cheap car.
Sorry had too. The set up was too perfect.

Any who this thread has long been derailed, or beaten half to death. Which ever came first.
I'll best be on my way.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by SCQTT

Ford Transit Ecoboost 310 HP/ 400 ft. lbs. Car & Driver.

Its a freaking van, it drives like a freaking van. That's my point, if you buy a twin for stoplight to stoplight action you are using a saw for a hammer.

I didn't disagree with the notion that the twins are not for drag races. However, the 0-60 times for your Ford Transit is 6.8 and the manual twins time is 6.1. You still lose. That was the point!!!! You did make the statement that vans were faster at 0-60 -- and they are not. The twins auto is slightly slower, but then autos with stability control are tested without raising rpm's. And the vast majority of twins sold are manuals....

[Spuds]

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by krayzie

To me connected is a purely feel term, not quantifiable and hard to explain (English is not my first language btw).

I haven't had the opportunity to have driven as many sports cars as you over the last few decades, but at the very least a few things I found much more "connected" were cable throttle, hydraulic steering, and 4 wheel double wishbone suspension. The two cars I drove almost daily when I was much younger in the 90's was a '96 Integra and a '89 Accord both fully stock. The BRZ is much more quiet and well sorted ride than those two, yet I much prefer the former. The drive by wire throttle and electric steering just don't feel the same. NVH in car development has gone to the point where maybe it just gotten too good.

As I got older I've had a chance to drive a 986 Boxster and 996 Carrera 4 and I found both cars to be terrible with both steering and shifting, and felt stupidly heavy when cornering yet with almost no body roll. I also have short legs and Asian physique so maybe I'm just not a German car guy. To me precision and even MSRP have nothing to do with the connected feel per se.

If there is a deadstock Honda Integra DC2 Type R I would gladly trade my BRZ for it in a heartbeat, even tho the BRZ is technically a MUCH better performer in a lot of ways.

Every car has a personality and each of us has favorites. "Connected" to me means a balance between preciseness and feel of the road -- almost a sense of rawness. You lose some road feel with Porsches, as you have found out. Your Honda's are sloppy to me in comparison to the BRZ. I don't feel connected when the car gets in the way by being sloppy. As the years go by, I try not to stay in the past, but revel in technological advancement. I like McLaren's for being "connected", buy they lack any practicality. And I totally disagree with you about body roll -- that takes away from being connected to the road because you think more about rolling over than what the road is telling you.

[iBrian]

Originally Posted by OfficeWorker

While I cannot say whether this is or is not the result of a mechanical issue in your specific case, I had a very similar sensation when I first got the car. It did not take long to adapt.

So I just did a trip from phoenix to los angeles, I'll sound like a total noob but I think it literally is just the car and i'm not used to it. I was doing between 70-95 all the way, it is still very sensitive but i do think that over time i'll get used to it. reg street driving the car behaves very well and is quite enjoyable, I really think 75 is the magic number where it becomes much more sensitive.

someone mentioned check the arms, the mechanic did check them and said all is fine, i had a focus st before this and it had sensitive steering and i became used to it, just feels like the brz is much more sensitive. i'm going to try a few things that were recommended and see how that works out. thanks for all the input!

[SCQTT]

Originally Posted by rvoll

I didn't disagree with the notion that the twins are not for drag races. However, the 0-60 times for your Ford Transit is 6.8 and the manual twins time is 6.1. You still lose. That was the point!!!! You did make the statement that vans were faster at 0-60 -- and they are not. The twins auto is slightly slower, but then autos with stability control are tested without raising rpm's. And the vast majority of twins sold are manuals....

I never said a van was faster. I never said my van was faster. I simply saw the vans posted, looked up the C&D specs for my van and posted them saying "you better bring your A game while shifting".

Its a freaking van for crying out loud. If you are so hung up on the 0-60 times why did you buy a twin? You want to debate, on the internet, a less than a one second 0-60 time? You want to tell me I lose? really? I think you might need to take a little stock of your life and what the important things are.

Isn't there a forum somewhere where someone is discussing if Superman is tougher than Batman?

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by rvoll

And I totally disagree with you about body roll -- that takes away from being connected to the road because you think more about rolling over than what the road is telling you.

The only car I've owned where I always felt like it's gonna roll over was my 2007 Golf GTI with optional Votex/Eibach springs and Sachs sport shocks, and that car didn't have much body roll to begin with.

Those Honda cars had body roll but their double wishbone suspension created a sunk in stable feeling mid corner and rolling over never ever crossed my mind, not even the '99 Civic EX I drove later on. They were not sloppy especially with decent tires. The BRZ could only replicate that feeling once I installed the STI flexible draw stiffeners (used in conjunction with the flexible tower bar).



I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by iBrian

So I just did a trip from phoenix to los angeles, I'll sound like a total noob but I think it literally is just the car and i'm not used to it. I was doing between 70-95 all the way, it is still very sensitive but i do think that over time i'll get used to it. reg street driving the car behaves very well and is quite enjoyable, I really think 75 is the magic number where it becomes much more sensitive.

someone mentioned check the arms, the mechanic did check them and said all is fine, i had a focus st before this and it had sensitive steering and i became used to it, just feels like the brz is much more sensitive. i'm going to try a few things that were recommended and see how that works out. thanks for all the input!

If you want more straight line steering center stability maybe look into tires. When I went from the stock Primacy HP to Pilot Sport A/S 3 that really improved. You can also ask your alignment tech to get as much positive caster as possible.

[Mim]

Originally Posted by rvoll

This points out a couple of things. First, the Pacifica is fairly fast for a minivan. The main reason for this is the 9 speed modern automatic transmission. The BRZ auto is not a great transmission. And since performance oriented BRZ/86 buyers would never opt for an automatic, there really doesn't exist a marketing reason to put a lot of money behind an update. Lastly, the auto can do better if you do the shifting yourself to keep the revs high. It should also be noted that the auto has less hp and torque and taller gearing.

It should be noted that I have an automatic and love it. I don't drag race it and the extra mpg is helpful on trips. My wife didn't like the "jerkiness" of the manual, and that was my compromise for buying the car (so sue me). Most of the higher end sports cars have moved to DCT type automatic transmissions and don't even offer manuals anymore. I've driven PDK's, and they are far better and faster than manuals. The only point here is that the auto trans is a real weak point.

If you want to win a drag race, get a Hellcat. Perhaps that MrAC fellow should buy a Pacifica and boast about his 0-60 times there!!!!! Compared to all other minivans, he'd be a winner. After all, minivans are purchased because of their high end performance. Right?

lolwat? Really? The Auto is not a great transmission?



From my understanding its derived from Lexus to start with and have you ever hit your sports button and or gone full manual with it and actually tried driving it in anger?



Even in just sports mode it will hold higher gears at higher RPMS and if you simply mash the gas from standing it will smoothly change up redlining each gear!



The paddle shifters might not be as sharp at swapping cogs as a DCT, but it’s really not far off at all and you have none of the low speed shenanigans that DCT’s are notorious for.



Also worth noting the only difference between the manual and auto with MY16 and older is the gearing being longer in the auto otherwise same power, torque and 4.1 FD ratio. Only with the MY17’s did the manual gain a tiny amount of extra power via a new manifold / tune and then gained better step off and a little faster acceleration from a 4.3 FD ratio upgrade.



If only I could take you for a spin in mine after the Cusco 4.556 FD mod. It became more or less as fast as the older manual with that one mod. Probably the best bang for your buck mod imo (for so many reasons).

[Mim]

Sorry my browser does some odd things with posts from time to time. Cant edit it to remove the extra spacing, gg IE.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Mim

lolwat? Really? The Auto is not a great transmission?



From my understanding its derived from Lexus to start with and have you ever hit your sports button and or gone full manual with it and actually tried driving it in anger?



Even in just sports mode it will hold higher gears at higher RPMS and if you simply mash the gas from standing it will smoothly change up redlining each gear!



The paddle shifters might not be as sharp at swapping cogs as a DCT, but it’s really not far off at all and you have none of the low speed shenanigans that DCT’s are notorious for.



Also worth noting the only difference between the manual and auto with MY16 and older is the gearing being longer in the auto otherwise same power, torque and 4.1 FD ratio. Only with the MY17’s did the manual gain a tiny amount of extra power via a new manifold / tune and then gained better step off and a little faster acceleration from a 4.3 FD ratio upgrade.



If only I could take you for a spin in mine after the Cusco 4.556 FD mod. It became more or less as fast as the older manual with that one mod. Probably the best bang for your buck mod imo (for so many reasons).

Listen, I also have an auto and I like it a lot. But state of the art is DCT and at least 8 speeds. Sport mode is great. We don't disagree that it is a very good transmission, but with a more modern version the car would be a lot faster off of the line -- especially because of the higher geared rear end. I've been spoiled with PDK's -- and there is a huge difference. And yes, some of the newer DCT's are crappy (and that's a technical term).

[RToyo86]

The on center steering is very direct. I would describe it as finger tip-y, small inputs are translated to the road immediately.

A lot of newer cars have similar direct on center steering but are numbed out with various steering modes that make the car feel more stable at higher speeds.