Contribute to Custom Fiberglass Box instructions

[Koa]

Hi guys, would like any tips or criticism on this DIY for custom fiberglass box instructions. I am going to make a 12" box in the wheel well for a JL 12 W6V2 subwoofer and 500/1V2 JL amp (pretty small guy).

Here's the instructables link:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Cust...ass-Subwoofer/

In addition, where do ya'll get your fiberglass supplies? Would love some perspectives there. I have done some searching but still would like tailored/personal opinions and finds. Will update the main thread as people chime in. Thanks in advance!

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Info from @stugray

FWIW - The carbon fiber/epoxy systems are even easier to work with than FG
IMO.

I get epoxy from JWest. http://www.westsystem.com/ss/

The polyester
resins used for typical "fiber-glass" smells much worse than the epoxy and you
need a respirator.
My local NAPA ( and even Ace hardware) has fiberglass
repair kits.
Bondo is the same stuff as the Poly resins used for FG work

[Kryptik319]

Definitely going to be following this thread. I have no fiberglass experience but the Instructables link does a good job of breaking it down. Looks like it would be a good weekend project.

Good luck and keep us up to date on your progress!

[stugray]

FWIW - The carbon fiber/epoxy systems are even easier to work with than FG IMO.

I get epoxy from JWest. http://www.westsystem.com/ss/

The polyester resins used for typical "fiber-glass" smells much worse than the epoxy and you need a respirator.
My local NAPA ( and even Ace hardware) has fiberglass repair kits.
Bondo is the same stuff as the Poly resins used for FG work

[Koa]

Originally Posted by stugray

FWIW - The carbon fiber/epoxy systems are even easier to work with than FG IMO.

I get epoxy from JWest. http://www.westsystem.com/ss/

The polyester resins used for typical "fiber-glass" smells much worse than the epoxy and you need a respirator.
My local NAPA ( and even Ace hardware) has fiberglass repair kits.
Bondo is the same stuff as the Poly resins used for FG work

Cool Stu, thanks. What Expoy system (resin + hardener) do you recommend from them? Would I be able to substitute the expoy mixture and follow the instructables approach?

[Integrity Concepts]

Koa,
Polyester resin and fiberglass CSM (chop strand mat) is the way to go for this project. Epoxy is a great resin that is superior to polyester in certain applications but it is not necessary for this application. Also epoxy is typically 3-5 times as expensive as polyester and does not break down the binders in the CSM. What this means is that the CSM remains stiff and unable to form properly to the complex contours of the trunk liner. Sure you can use woven fabric with Epoxy, but woven is also more expensive then CSM by weight, can not be torn to shape leaving cut edges resulting in un-smooth transitions between pieces, should be laid alternating the weave direction with each layer, and will take longer to build up the appropriate thickness.

CSM and Polyester resin can be purchased at most hardware and automotive stores down the street, but these gallons are usually old material that is either past its shelf life or getting there, resulting in a thick and gloppy substance that does not saturate the mat well or at the proper mat to resin ratios resulting in a weaker and heavier finished product.

So where can you get the good quality stuff? Order from a fiberglass supplier online and pay the ground shipping, or find a supplier locally that will sell in 1 gallon amounts (a 12" sealed enclosure of 1 cu ft should require approx 1.5 gallons of polyester resin when laid to the appropriate thickness). Looking at your location, you are here in the Seattle area just like us, and at TAP Plastics you can get 1 gal of Polyester Laminating Resin for $50.

Be warned... After you purchase resin, hardener, mat, tape, drop cloth, mixing containers and sticks, brushes, gloves, acetone, MDF for the ring, dowel for the stands, CA or hot glues, fleece for the initial front surface, sand paper, filler, carpet, and spray glue you are probably looking at around $175 - $200 in supplies unless you have some of it on hand or purchase in large / bulk quantities. Then you have to look at the cost associated with picking up all of these items or having them shipped which could add $25-$50. Next the tools needed (jigsaw, hot glue gun, sander, grinder or cutoff wheel, etc.), the blades or discs for cutting it all, and don't forget a dust mask and paint respirator! It all adds up.

After you have all your supplies and a heated area of at least 60-70F degrees (that has good ventilation) your all set. This project will take a professional roughly 6-8 hours to complete not including curing times. When you take all of this into consideration it's easy to see why your average stereo shop charges $600-$800 for a simple custom fiberglass enclosure. It is a fun rewarding project for some and can be a miserable experience for others. FYI there is the typical blood, sweat, and tears doing this... a lot of awkward and back breaking leaning into the trunk for an extended period to tape and glass, sweating to get it out and shape / sand it etc. One thing is for sure, plan on getting messy if it is your first experience with fiberglass, tape further and thicker than you'd expect and drop cloth the rest of your trunk and bumper (even the fiberglass hairs are not easily vacuumed out of the trunk liner). When I started laying fiberglass in tight spaces more than 15 years ago I would manage to get it all the way up to my armpits, LOL, and this seems to be the case for everybody. Now I barely drip once or even need to change gloves, but I still tape off everything! Resin will never come out of the trunk liner not even just a little drip that you try to wipe up.

There are many ways to do this and trial and error is the best way to learn, but if you have any other questions let me know.

As an alternative to doing this yourself - We sell an 8" and 10" enclosure for both sides specifically for every year and platform of this vehicle. Our 10" enclosure can even be modified to fit a 12" at about .87 cu ft. Our enclosures are laid into a mold with 100% fiberglass, no fleece like a custom part would use, so our enclosures are stronger and lighter. We have designed them for optimum output and space saving, sourced the highest quality materials, and we offer tailoring the internal volume to your specific sub as well as a full array of options and customizations. We sound deaden spray the inside and out of each enclosure, and include mounting solutions, gold plated terminals, speaker wire, and polyfil dampening material. Lastly we offer a 5 year warranty and a 30 day return policy so that every customer can have confidence and peace of mind that they are getting a lasting product of the highest quality.

For most this is more than just not having to do the work themselves, it is the convenience of having it delivered to their doorstep, not having to leave your vehicle at a shop an extra day or two or taking the risk of damage to the trunk and bumper, not to mention the smell it leaves in the cabin of the vehicle for the next 1-2 weeks. We offer the convenience, the warranty, the support, and the customization of the high quality product all for a fraction of the cost of a stereo shop, and maybe even less then the do it yourselfer depending on how much of the supplies and tools you already have and how much you value your time.

Check out the prototyping and molding process here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31813

Check out the products here: www.IntegrityConcepts.net

Cheers, Dan - Integrity Concepts


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[Kryptik319]

@Integrity Concepts

Great detailed write up. Thanks for not just giving a straight sales pitch but detailing what all goes into making a custom enclosure. When I upgrade my sound system in the future you guys will definitely be at the top of my list.

[koteman]

Uscomposites. Com for material. Check out fiberglass forums lots if good info there that's where I learned everything. Feel free to pm me questions I've done so much fiber glass on my last car. Good materials makes it 10x easier don't buy bonds brand anything

[Koa]

Originally Posted by Integrity Concepts

Koa,

There are many ways to do this and trial and error is the best way to learn, but if you have any other questions let me know.

As an alternative to doing this yourself - We sell an 8" and 10" enclosure for both sides specifically for every year and platform of this vehicle. Our 10" enclosure can even be modified to fit a 12" at about .87 cu ft. Our enclosures are laid into a mold with 100% fiberglass, no fleece like a custom part would use, so our enclosures are stronger and lighter. We have designed them for optimum output and space saving, sourced the highest quality materials, and we offer tailoring the internal volume to your specific sub as well as a full array of options and customizations. We sound deaden spray the inside and out of each enclosure, and include mounting solutions, gold plated terminals, speaker wire, and polyfil dampening material. Lastly we offer a 5 year warranty and a 30 day return policy so that every customer can have confidence and peace of mind that they are getting a lasting product of the highest quality.... (continued)

Cheers, Dan - Integrity Concepts


.

Hi Dan,

A few weeks ago I showed a friend about to grossly overpay for the OEM+ system your guys' build thread (sorry but I don't believe in paying more for an inferior product). I followed it closely and loved how ya'll are so transparent and welcoming to questions and feedback. Not trying to toot your horn or anything, but I am damn impressed and it further underscores my initial impressions of Integrity's quality and passion for the art with your response here.

I would love to buy from you guys, but I have a 12W6V2 sitting next to me that commands a larger box. I know little about this particular craft but have built and tinkered with guitar cabinets and other sonic things since I was a little kid (Vox, MusicMan, Fender, Marshall, Orange, boutique ones to name a few recent ones ). Thankfully I also have almost everything on hand except for the actual resin and hardener.

I'm thinking of a spare tire box with the ability to cover it with the OEM floor mat. I don't want to spend over $500 in supplies as I already wasted money on a silly hardwood box that I shouldn't have bought.. so this is why I want to DIY. Would buy your guys' offering in a heartbeat if I had the sub and setup for it.

One question- Any particular brands of resin and CSM I should ask for when pinging TAP?

Thank you again for your eloquent response and perspectives. I will note all of them when undertaking the project!

[AtlasMick]

I absolutely hate polyester resin in every way.

I use epoxy for all my resin needs. It does work with chopped strand mat, but like stated earlier, will not conform easily to contours, and you need to plan ahead with woven mat, but with more planning done up front I feel epoxy is the way to go. If you have both woven and chop mat, both in varying thicknesses, you can build anything with epoxy, that in my opinion is strong, and not to mention, binds far better to wood and other materials you may be using in the build.

[Integrity Concepts]

Originally Posted by Koa

loved how ya'll are so transparent and welcoming to questions and feedback. Not trying to toot your horn or anything, but I am damn impressed and it further underscores my initial impressions of Integrity's quality and passion for the art with your response here.

Koa, Thank you for your kind words.

Originally Posted by Koa

I would love to buy from you guys, but I have a 12W6V2 sitting next to me that commands a larger box.

You are correct, and I totally understand. JL Audio recommends a "NET" sealed enclosure volume of 1.25 cu ft for the 12W6 "V2" and when you add the woofers displacement of .09 cu ft you are looking at a Gross enclosure volume of 1.34 cu ft. which is too far above our modified 10" into a 12" enclosure that would be approximately .90 cu ft.

The 12W6 "V3" is optimized for a smaller enclosure at 1.0 cu ft. "NET" and so if you had the "V3" I would say that you could use our enclosure for it and be in the operating range, as well as the included polyfil aiding to this point.

You could always sell the "V2" for a "V3" or go to a 10W6.

Originally Posted by Koa

I'm thinking of a spare tire box with the ability to cover it with the OEM floor mat. I don't want to spend over $500 in supplies as I already wasted money on a silly hardwood box that I shouldn't have bought.. so this is why I want to DIY. Would buy your guys' offering in a heartbeat if I had the sub and setup for it.

In order to do an enclosure for the 12W6 in the spare tire well, you are going to have to build a false floor and raise it up a number of inches. The reasoning behind this is that the woofer itself has a mounting depth of 7.6" and "A minimum distance of 0.75 in (19 mm) is required between the back of the speaker and any wall of the enclosure to allow proper operation of the pole vent." Add another .75" to the top of the surround and at least an additional 1" for excursion clearance under the mat and you are looking at needing roughly 10" of depth plus the enclosure bottom wall thickness. I am not sure of the actual depth of the well from the factory but I would guess it is between 6"-7" to the factory mat. If you can avoid the spare tire fastening point (bump) you are still looking at raising the floor at minimum 4"-5". The frame will need to look something like this except taller:



The top can be MDF and then the false trunk floor will have to be raised further above this to allow clearance for the woofer to play. If you plan to have anything directly over the woofer, even the mat, you should have as much clearance as possible, customize a grill, or use the JL factory grill.

Obviously the above pic is just an example so don't forget to lay tape before glassing inside this frame. Speaking of laying tape, I will add to my previous comments, not only should you lay extra tape and drop cloth everything, but you should double layer the tape alternating the direction with each layer. This way you have the least chance of resin leaking between the seams. You can wax or wipe PAM on the tape to help with release or another trick is to lightly spray glue tinfoil to the taped surface which will allow for an easy release of the molded part (note that the tinfoil will get stuck in the resin on the underside of the enclosure and is very difficult to remove so most will leave it there).

Set your woofer in the trunk and make some calculations before planning too much. My guess is that because of the woofers depth the floor will have to come up too much (loosing a lot of space over the entire trunk surface) to make this location worth it. [/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Koa

Thankfully I also have almost everything on hand except for the actual resin and hardener.

One question- Any particular brands of resin and CSM I should ask for when pinging TAP?

TAP Plastics has a "Bond Coat Polyester Laminating Resin" for $50 a Gallon and you will need 2 oz of MEKP hardener at $4 for each gallon of resin.

Get a yard or 2 of .75 oz CSM for the first few layers (thinner and forms well to the contours). Get 1.5 oz CSM for the rest of the layers (the glassed surface area of the final chosen space will determine how much is needed).

If you decide to go with the Epoxy resin from TAP it will be approximately $80 more for the resin. They have a "General Purpose Epoxy" in a 2 Gal kit for $190 and no hardener is needed as it is mixed 1:1. Again, you should get woven fabric instead of CSM, and in varying weights.

Originally Posted by Koa

Thank you again for your eloquent response and perspectives. I will note all of them when undertaking the project!

No problem, any time. Good Luck with it!


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[Koa]

Originally Posted by Integrity Concepts

Koa, Thank you for your kind words.



You are correct, and I totally understand. JL Audio recommends a "NET" sealed enclosure volume of 1.25 cu ft for the 12W6 "V2" and when you add the woofers displacement of .09 cu ft you are looking at a Gross enclosure volume of 1.34 cu ft. which is too far above our modified 10" into a 12" enclosure that would be approximately .90 cu ft.

The 12W6 "V3" is optimized for a smaller enclosure at 1.0 cu ft. "NET" and so if you had the "V3" I would say that you could use our enclosure for it and be in the operating range, as well as the included polyfil aiding to this point.

You could always sell the "V2" for a "V3" or go to a 10W6.

Wow. Again, floored by the knowledge and perspectives shared here. Thank you many times over!

Alternatively, I am not completely adverse to making a wheel-well box that I can take out if I need space, but is the only major thing in the trunk otherwise.

Would this simplify things a little bit?

I noticed you guys are in Bothell. Do ya'll do custom work? I'm all for DIY, but with this rig I want to do it right ONCE and not look back. PM me with quotes if so.

Really appreciate the responses here guys

[Integrity Concepts]

Originally Posted by Koa

Wow. Again, floored by the knowledge and perspectives shared here. Thank you many times over!

Alternatively, I am not completely adverse to making a wheel-well box that I can take out if I need space, but is the only major thing in the trunk otherwise.

Would this simplify things a little bit?

I noticed you guys are in Bothell. Do ya'll do custom work? I'm all for DIY, but with this rig I want to do it right ONCE and not look back. PM me with quotes if so.

Really appreciate the responses here guys

Koa,
Really glad we could be of some assistance to you, no matter which route you choose! We have PM'd you some options and maybe we can work something out to get a product in the works!


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[Kryptik319]

What route did you end up going @Koa?

[Koa]

Hi guys sorry for the lack of updates. @Integrity Concepts is working on a production 12 inch enclosure and used my car as the tester! Updates to come in the month