How to screw up your cars handling and ride - step by step!

[Bykov]

Originally Posted by boredom.is.me

Hub adapters? Your wheel face isn't going to look any different. And that 10mm extra width isn't going to make nearly as much of a difference as an actual staggered setup.

I suggest you to just drop the car first. You can also run 5mm spacers with the 45mm offset to achieve 40mm. There is just no point getting two different wheels in the same width.

Again, no expert, but I searched the forum to find that our hubs measure in at 56.1mm and the TS9's are 72.6mm and I assumed.... crap, that's my bad, not hub adapters but hubcentric rings*


I haven't read anything negative about this kind of setup, or anyone trying it. The wheels are not exactly $800 a piece so why not experiment? About them not making a difference as compared to a truly staggered setup: it doesn't have to be much of a difference, it just has to not have a negative impact (besides rotating tires).


But real question is still: 235 PSS on 18x8.5, 1 inch drop, Tein monosport. Good match for tire spec vs the coils or not? Better, same, worse handling? Mostly street driving maybe 7 track days a year.

[ansibe]

Bykov, the only thing that really counts is your happiness, and if that look does it for you, go for it!

But ...

I ran 18x7.5 45 offset Enkei with Hankook Evo II, and my car was SLOWER than OE at the tracks I visit. I was shocked, and mad. The best I can figure, the increased rotational inertia of the 18s was sucking up the meager power we have, and the extra grip couldn't make up for it.

The tires did have a bit more grip than stock, but that just made the car understeer more, which killed all the fun. You may have heard that the rear gains camber quicker than the front in roll, and the extra roll from the stickier tires made the rear grip even more.

Bottom line: I'm back to OE wheels and tires, and happier than ever.

[Bykov]

Originally Posted by ansibe

Bykov, the only thing that really counts is your happiness, and if that look does it for you, go for it!

But ...

I ran 18x7.5 45 offset Enkei with Hankook Evo II, and my car was SLOWER than OE at the tracks I visit. I was shocked, and mad. The best I can figure, the increased rotational inertia of the 18s was sucking up the meager power we have, and the extra grip couldn't make up for it.

The tires did have a bit more grip than stock, but that just made the car understeer more, which killed all the fun. You may have heard that the rear gains camber quicker than the front in roll, and the extra roll from the stickier tires made the rear grip even more.

Bottom line: I'm back to OE wheels and tires, and happier than ever.

Now we are getting somewhere, this is helpful. I understand I am still losing as compared to 17's but the SC more than makes up for it. My goals are to be above OEM, not to squeeze max performance out (otherwise I would have gone turbo and not even considered 18's), and I have the power more than covered. I am one of those guys that says 220 whp is plenty for the car and I will be putting down quite a bit more than that. My main concern is handling characteristic with this setup and if the teins, wheels, and tires will work well together or will I be utterly disappointed and go back to stock and just run much grippier tires on the OEM wheels. I am more than fine with breaking even as far as handling goes all things considered.


I apologize if understanding my point is difficult but I am looking for a specific answer about the handling of the vehicle as that is the topic of this thread. I also apologize if I am just not understanding your answers. English is second for me as far as language goes.


Then again if I am completely missing the point and the answer is already here I will go back to reading only and not posting because I still have a lot to learn. I did read every page on this thread though and I usually read many threads for days before I post so... here we are.

[boredom.is.me]

Originally Posted by Bykov

Again, no expert, but I searched the forum to find that our hubs measure in at 56.1mm and the TS9's are 72.6mm and I assumed.... crap, that's my bad, not hub adapters but hubcentric rings*


I haven't read anything negative about this kind of setup, or anyone trying it. The wheels are not exactly $800 a piece so why not experiment? About them not making a difference as compared to a truly staggered setup: it doesn't have to be much of a difference, it just has to not have a negative impact (besides rotating tires).


But real question is still: 235 PSS on 18x8.5, 1 inch drop, Tein monosport. Good match for tire spec vs the coils or not? Better, same, worse handling? Mostly street driving maybe 7 track days a year.

As for the hubcentric rings, they aren't needed. They are for people who do not understand how clamping forces work.

As for tire choices, you have plenty. The PSS is a good choice and what I am currently running. I previously came from Potenza RE760 which also did excellent. They were cheaper but I'm sure the PSS will last longer. The Bridgestone Comp 2's are cheap grip, but are still a class under the PSS.

For an 8.5" wheel, a 245/35R18 will keep your speed operating within reason. A 235/40R18 is significantly bigger.

I'm not here to provide track advice, just trying to provide some simple sense.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Bykov

Again, no expert, but I searched the forum to find that our hubs measure in at 56.1mm and the TS9's are 72.6mm and I assumed.... crap, that's my bad, not hub adapters but hubcentric rings*


I haven't read anything negative about this kind of setup, or anyone trying it. The wheels are not exactly $800 a piece so why not experiment? About them not making a difference as compared to a truly staggered setup: it doesn't have to be much of a difference, it just has to not have a negative impact (besides rotating tires).


But real question is still: 235 PSS on 18x8.5, 1 inch drop, Tein monosport. Good match for tire spec vs the coils or not? Better, same, worse handling? Mostly street driving maybe 7 track days a year.

What's the spring rates on those Tein monosports.

[Bykov]

Originally Posted by Calum

What's the spring rates on those Tein monosports.

I was actually hoping to get a recommendation on that specifically for the setup I had in mind. I'm at a point in my life where I know enough to about cars to understand how much I don't know about cars. As I plan on doing these upgrades I plan to learn along the way. Going FI for the first time was over a year of research and a day of setting money on fire. I am starting my research into suspension setups and my previous posts are a clear demonstration of how little I know. I was thinking 9k front 8k rear.

Also someone was nice enough to point out to me in PM I can run a square setup with the 5mm spacer and put my concerns to rest.

[chaoskaze]

Just found this wonderful thread today. Too bad I just changed my tire.

I finally got new tires after stocks are nearly gone. I went with MPSS 225/45/17 cuz it's cheaper then 215. Just gonna say the cons.... Err I don't feel the road that much anymore.... I guess that's a given since I gain roughly 5mm in heights & the compound is a lot softer then stock. I hate to say this but there is just this delay on the infos I feel.... Like slow & muffled out. Stick to 215 if you like the feel of road surface being engrave in your head as you drive over them..... I don't even feel the bumps till I drove pass them now. >.>

I'm just a total noob & didn't think it would change how the car feels by this much. It almost feel premium now...:/



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Icecreamtruk]

This thread just got really interesting lately. My first tire change was from OEM (after around 6-7 track days on them) to PSS, but I got them in 245/40/17. I honestly think that was a mistake. The tire grips more, sure, but my times on the track didnt really improve at all. Whats worse, as chaoskaze mentioned, the handling got delayed. There were times where right after turn in I wouldnt know how much grip left there is in the tire thru the steering wheel, it would take a second for me to feel something and sometimes I was already about to go over the limit and understeer my way out of track. Overall it made me somewhat doubt myself and my times started dropping. I was eventually able to come back from that and actually improved uppon my previous times but I will no longer be using those tires on the track (they are about shot as well, they go from cold to greasy in a couple of laps now).

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Bykov

I'm at a point in my life where I know enough to about cars to understand how much I don't know about cars.

This is actually a huge step. The smartest people I know (whether it's engineering or science) never stop trying to learn more.

Originally Posted by Bykov

I am starting my research into suspension setups and my previous posts are a clear demonstration of how little I know. I was thinking 9k front 8k rear.

Also someone was nice enough to point out to me in PM I can run a square setup with the 5mm spacer and put my concerns to rest.

I would prefer the square wheel set-up and then run the 5mm spacer rather than different offset wheels.

I would not run stiffer front springs, though. 7k/7k or possibly 7k/8k. No real need IMO for a street car on PSS to go much stiffer than 7k. As long as the shocks are good.

- Andrew

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

Just found this wonderful thread today. Too bad I just changed my tire.

I finally got new tires after stocks are nearly gone. I went with MPSS 225/45/17 cuz it's cheaper then 215. Just gonna say the cons.... Err I don't feel the road that much anymore.... I guess that's a given since I gain roughly 5mm in heights & the compound is a lot softer then stock. I hate to say this but there is just this delay on the infos I feel.... Like slow & muffled out. Stick to 215 if you like the feel of road surface being engrave in your head as you drive over them..... I don't even feel the bumps till I drove pass them now. >.>

I'm just a total noob & didn't think it would change how the car feels by this much. It almost feel premium now...:/

What's your alignment like?

- Andrew

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

This thread just got really interesting lately. My first tire change was from OEM (after around 6-7 track days on them) to PSS, but I got them in 245/40/17. I honestly think that was a mistake. The tire grips more, sure, but my times on the track didnt really improve at all. Whats worse, as chaoskaze mentioned, the handling got delayed. There were times where right after turn in I wouldnt know how much grip left there is in the tire thru the steering wheel, it would take a second for me to feel something and sometimes I was already about to go over the limit and understeer my way out of track. Overall it made me somewhat doubt myself and my times started dropping. I was eventually able to come back from that and actually improved uppon my previous times but I will no longer be using those tires on the track (they are about shot as well, they go from cold to greasy in a couple of laps now).

The tire is the most important part of the set-up. A big change there (and OEM to even a moderately sticky summer tier like PSS is kinda big) really does have an effect on how the whole system works.

Ideally with the tire change you also alter spring rates, alignment, possibly ride height, bushings, etc..

It's a system, and the stock system is based on the stock tires. Changing that major component makes changes everywhere else very worthwhile! It should all "match."

- Andrew

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

What's your alignment like?



- Andrew

I haven't done it. I'm putting STI Spring on stock strut this weekend then alignment once spring settles......I literary just put on the PSS less then 24 hrs ago. :/ Is there anyway to remedy this delay on feel? I really don't like it. Please let me know, I'm all ears. Thank you.

Or I should just try my luck & see if I can exchange it for a 215 tire... Really pushing my luck & put myself to shame... :/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JozhGoober]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

I haven't done it. I'm putting STI Spring on stock strut this weekend then alignment once spring settles......I literary just put on the PSS less then 24 hrs ago. :/ Is there anyway to remedy this delay on feel? I really don't like it. Please let me know, I'm all ears. Thank you.

Or I should just try my luck & see if I can exchange it for a 215 tire... Really pushing my luck & put myself to shame... :/

Oh, if you've only had the tires on a very short time, it's probably just the tire wearing in. Most tires feel slippery and vague until you wear them in a bit.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...e.jsp?techid=5

The only real way to accelerate the process is to have the tires shaved, but then you're cutting away tire life (and doesn't make sense on non-race tires). Put a few hundred miles on them and they should feel much better!

[strat61caster]

@chaoskaze

What tire pressure you running? If you were running low before try returning to the OE 35 psi, maybe try higher at say 38 or even 40 psi. It's a bandaid that may not result in ultimate grip but may help the 'feel' of the setup.