86 versus VW Golf GTI

[Suberman]

Evo magazine just comparo tested the GT86 TRD edition available in the UK against the current DSG equipped VW GTI. The GTI whipped the GT86.

Even though better tires on bigger wheels knocked 2 seconds off a 70 second lap,time the GTI was more than half a second quicker.

The consensus was that the GT86 was more fun to drive than the GTI but not worth the markup for the TRD package (basically wheels and tires).

TRD comes with 225/45x18 Michelin Pilot Sport 3 on 18x8 wheels. The ride is reported to be stiffer with the 18 inch tires, odd since the sidewall is the same height as on the 225/45x17 and taller than on the stock tire size. Likely the Pilot Sport is just more tire than the Primacy and feels sharper. The ride should be similar. Wheel weight will be a factor for ride with those larger rims though. Both tire and wheel will be significantly heavier in the 18 in size than the 17.

Looks like 225 section Michelin Pilot A/S 3 may be a good choice for this car. The TRD comes with 225/45x18 on 18x8 wheels. I suspect the sweet spot is the 17x8 size.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Evo magazine just comparo tested the GT86 TRD edition available in the UK against the current DSG equipped VW GTI. The GTI whipped the GT86.

Even though better tires on bigger wheels knocked 2 seconds off a 70 second lap,time the GTI was more than half a second quicker.

Historically Evo has been so biased against the Twins starting with their bashing of the BRZ, I don't even bother reading them anymore. All the articles they've published about the Twins since then seems to be trying to justify that original bashing.

Case in point, every review of the Twins vs. GTI on a track to date, the Twins have been faster.

AutoGuide (Pratte/Pro driver):
BRZ - 1:26
GTI - 1:28

Motor Trend SOWS (Pobst/Pro driver):
BRZ - 1:30
GTI - 1:31

Car and Drive Lightning Lap:
BRZ - 3:18
GTI - 3:19

Top Gear Polska:
GT86 - 1:58
GTI - 2:02

And that's with stock tires. But Evo magazine tests a GT86 with upgraded tires and suspension, and in their hands, it's almost a second slower than a GTI? Something is off there.

Evo has lost its credibility IMO. The should just come clean, say they screwed up their initial review of the BRZ, and start from a clean slate.

Sources:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...o-2013-page-10

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiS1jL5Wtqg#t=455"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiS1jL5Wtqg#t=455[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCWTo74XvZM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCWTo74XvZM[/ame]

[ZionsWrath]

Well, the 86 doesn't really have any storage that can be presented as neat and tidy. It has 2 cup holders in the center which can be removed for your fire extinguisher which is quite a nice feature. The only other storage space is the trunk, which the rear seats can fold flat and hold all your track gear including wheels. Sounds like the 86 has maximized its useable space, if you still don't like it maybe it isn't the car for you.

GTI is a nice car, don't feel bad if you choose it over the 86.

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Evo magazine just comparo tested the GT86 TRD edition available in the UK against the current DSG equipped VW GTI. The GTI whipped the GT86.

Even though better tires on bigger wheels knocked 2 seconds off a 70 second lap,time the GTI was more than half a second quicker.

The consensus was that the GT86 was more fun to drive than the GTI but not worth the markup for the TRD package (basically wheels and tires).

TRD comes with 225/45x18 Michelin Pilot Sport 3 on 18x8 wheels. The ride is reported to be stiffer with the 18 inch tires, odd since the sidewall is the same height as on the 225/45x17 and taller than on the stock tire size. Likely the Pilot Sport is just more tire than the Primacy and feels sharper. The ride should be similar. Wheel weight will be a factor for ride with those larger rims though. Both tire and wheel will be significantly heavier in the 18 in size than the 17.

Looks like 225 section Michelin Pilot A/S 3 may be a good choice for this car. The TRD comes with 225/45x18 on 18x8 wheels. I suspect the sweet spot is the 17x8 size.

Well if it really has 225/45/18 then that is the wrong diameter so could explain that time gap.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

Well if it really has 225/45/18 then that is the wrong diameter so could explain that time gap.

Yes, odd that but the TRD package is from Toyota. The correct size would be more like 225/40x18.

As for tire diameter affecting lap times well a stop watch is a stop watch, regardless of tire size. Maybe the taller gearing effect is beneficial but if so then we all should fit bigger wheels!

Unsprung weight of this bigger tire/wheel package would be in the order of 20% higher which would explain the ride quality deterioration mentioned in the Evo article.

I am convinced that over-tiring this car is a big mistake. 17x7.5 wheels with 225/45x17 tires just has to be the ideal size for best all around performance. TRD thinks not though as they feel they can charge more than $5K for what is essentially a tire/wheel upgrade , cosmetic exhaust component plus some lower body panels!

[thill]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Evo magazine just comparo tested the GT86 TRD edition available in the UK against the current DSG equipped VW GTI. The GTI whipped the GT86.

Even though better tires on bigger wheels knocked 2 seconds off a 70 second lap,time the GTI was more than half a second quicker.

The consensus was that the GT86 was more fun to drive than the GTI but not worth the markup for the TRD package (basically wheels and tires).

TRD comes with 225/45x18 Michelin Pilot Sport 3 on 18x8 wheels. The ride is reported to be stiffer with the 18 inch tires, odd since the sidewall is the same height as on the 225/45x17 and taller than on the stock tire size. Likely the Pilot Sport is just more tire than the Primacy and feels sharper. The ride should be similar. Wheel weight will be a factor for ride with those larger rims though. Both tire and wheel will be significantly heavier in the 18 in size than the 17.

Looks like 225 section Michelin Pilot A/S 3 may be a good choice for this car. The TRD comes with 225/45x18 on 18x8 wheels. I suspect the sweet spot is the 17x8 size.

Is this the MKVII or the MKVI GTI?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by thill

Is this the MKVII or the MKVI GTI?

Good question, didn't think of this. If this was the mk7 (already released in Europe), that might explain it.

[thill]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Good question, didn't think of this. If this was the mk7 (already released in Europe), that might explain it.

Yes, the MKVII with the performance package really looks and sounds impressive. It could explain a lot


That said, Motortrend seems to think the MVVII with the performance pack will not come to the States for now. Which would be a travesity IMHO. As for about $1K you get the edifferential, larger wheels/tires, and the extra hp.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by thill

Yes, the MKVII with the performance package really looks and sounds impressive. It could explain a lot


That said, Motortrend seems to think the MVVII with the performance pack will not come to the States for now. Which would be a travesity IMHO. As for about $1K you get the edifferential, larger wheels/tires, and the extra hp.

Yeah that would suck. The PP is the only reason I'd even consider upgrading from my current mk6 GTI. Without the LSD and extra hp, the difference is too slight to be worth the cost.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by thill

Is this the MKVII or the MKVI GTI?

The article isn't specific but it is the most current European version which I believe is the mark VII.

[thill]

Originally Posted by Suberman

The article isn't specific but it is the most current European version which I believe is the mark VII.

You can tell by the front lights. The MKVII's have a trim line extended through them like this:

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by thill

You can tell by the front lights. The MKVII's have a trim line extended through them like this:

Mark VII.

[thill]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Mark VII.

Thanks, and that explains it. From all indications the MKVII is a marked improvement over the 6 if you have the performance pack..

[krayzie]

Well if the Mexican built EA888 would not have both direct + port injection and valvelift, then it's not a marked improvement. They also went with heavy steel for its suspension cuz they moved the aluminum money onto the chassis. The oil pan will be plastic. I'm actually quite interested to test drive this new MQB GTI to see if it actually feels lighter than the PQ35 GTI. Maybe the computer wouldn't need to work as hard to mask its pig heavy handling. The PQ35 is quite good when it works.

I'm so glad I got rid of my Mk5 GTI no more breaking flat tappered cam follower or intake valve carbon buildup or the subframe shifting everytime I turn to worry about. I'll take my chances with Denso direct injector seals lol!

The new Hachi-Roku reminds me of the old days of driving low slung Japanese sport compact cars and I really missed that feeling. It even comes with a warranty so it was a no brainer for me.