Can you manually shift automatic version w/out the paddle shifters?

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by devinclfalcons

Does anyone have a good, clear, picture of the automatic shifter? I have yet to see one...

It almost looks like the manual box, except it moves in one straight line and has the PRNDS indicator taking over a part of the shift boot space. Clever visual detail if you ask me.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by FRSpdDmn

How much cheaper do you think it is to develop an 8, 9, or 10 speed gearbox than a DCT? There are reasons that autos are still around in most applications. They're smooth and customers are comfortable with them. It's taken, what, 80 years to get the AT to where it is today? As DCT's get smoother (they already are so much smoother than the original automated manuals), they will gain more traction. I'm actually quite impressed with how quickly they've gained ground since the first mass produced unit in the Audi TT 3.2. They had them working in high-power output applications within 10 years and they are only getting better. This is a good thing for everyone that both the autos and DCT's are improving.

DCTs have an uphill battle imo. regarding smoothness, they will never match the smoothness of an AT. smoothness basically means slipping the clutches which is bad for reliability and it means slower response. its just way too dependent on the computer and how it was programmed. im not so sure that we'll ever get to that point, where the computer gives you the exact amount of clutch modulation that you want.

regarding mpg, the compact planetary gearsets in the AT make it a very viable solution for the future. CVTs in theory are great, but they are weak and absolutely no fun. DCTs will run into packaging and weight problems if they try to squeeze increasingly more gears inside. ATs are on the brink of 9 speeds and even 10 speeds. the ZF 9 speed is also going to be a transverse FWD setup. that's quite compact. i dunno if a 9 speed transverse FWD DCT is on the horizon, but if it isnt, then the battle is already lost imo. so ATs imo are making a comeback as manufacturers figure out that they are the perfect middle ground between CVTs and DCTs. AND ZF's modular design makes it super easy to make the car a hybrid. again just look at the F30 3 series...

[FRSpdDmn]

We also said that AT's would never be as fast as manuals, but look how far they've come. AT's have been being developed for much longer than DCT's. Each still has their plusses and minuses. At this point, they are both viable options for street cars, for those who don't care about having the connection of a manual transmission. Manuals don't even get better fuel economy anymore

The 6+speed transverse AT's are coming, with the Dodge Dart possibly being the first to get that 9-speed, from what I understand. Personally, I think that adding more and more gears is just creeping toward CVT'ness, if you know what I mean. At this point, you're only shifting it manually if you're looking for high performance - in which case you're losing all that fuel economy that those gears are there to provide (sure you get closer gear ratios that can help acceleration) - but it's getting past the point of being fun. Even with a 6-speed manual, I frequently find myself skipping a gear or two (usually 5th) once I've gotten up to speed and settle into my cruising speed. A 7-speed manual, Porsche? Comeon.... We're not buying manuals at this point for their fuel efficiency.

[madfast]

one idea i've always had was a 8 or 9 speed AT that used different ratios for manual and automatic modes. some ratios would be shared and some would be unique to their respective modes. so for example a 9 speed wont actually give you access to all 9 speeds at one time. instead 6 ratios are used for auto mode and a 6 ratios for manual mode, with 3 shared ratios. naturally the manual mode will have a performance bias, and the auto mode will be for mpgs.

you can further complicate things with Sport Auto mode that uses the manual mode ratios except the tranny shifts for itself. and likewise, perhaps manual mode can have an Eco mode that lets you access the auto mode ratios for super cruising.

anyways, the point im kinda making is that with more gears, you have more flexibility.

[serialk11r]

Uh...why would auto and manual need different ratios? Sorry, that is one of the most bizarre things I've ever heard. What is the point of locking out ratios? Didn't you say more gear choices is better? Low gears do not hurt fuel economy as long as you don't try to cruise at 5000 rpm. In fact low gears are arguably better in the city because you have an easier start, and then you just put it in 6th or 7th or whatever when you get up to speed.
To make more gear ratios I guess you could stick a second set of gears in but then you have to extra gears to change and that makes things complicated.

[FRSpdDmn]

Originally Posted by madfast

one idea i've always had was a 8 or 9 speed AT that used different ratios for manual and automatic modes. some ratios would be shared and some would be unique to their respective modes. so for example a 9 speed wont actually give you access to all 9 speeds at one time. instead 6 ratios are used for auto mode and a 6 ratios for manual mode, with 3 shared ratios. naturally the manual mode will have a performance bias, and the auto mode will be for mpgs.

you can further complicate things with Sport Auto mode that uses the manual mode ratios except the tranny shifts for itself. and likewise, perhaps manual mode can have an Eco mode that lets you access the auto mode ratios for super cruising.

anyways, the point im kinda making is that with more gears, you have more flexibility.

You mean just like a CVT with "preset" ratios for manual mode?

[madfast]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Uh...why would auto and manual need different ratios? Sorry, that is one of the most bizarre things I've ever heard. What is the point of locking out ratios? Didn't you say more gear choices is better? Low gears do not hurt fuel economy as long as you don't try to cruise at 5000 rpm. In fact low gears are arguably better in the city because you have an easier start, and then you just put it in 6th or 7th or whatever when you get up to speed.
To make more gear ratios I guess you could stick a second set of gears in but then you have to extra gears to change and that makes things complicated.

i was just thinking out loud. the problem is that ATs rarely get the similar gearing as their MT counterparts. also too many gears, and bad programming leads to gear hunting. if they choose proper ratios and have good programming for sporty driving then i guess i have no problems.