HKS Engine Specs

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Breadman

Ok so I paid under 13k for it and had extra parts that i sold. Also if you know so much why are you asking us?

Eh, that's a bit of a stretch argument. He is asking about the HKS engine because he is interested in one complete with new parts and there is not much info on the HKS engine. You got yours built with an IAG shortblock with reused heads and cams. Yes that may be more economical and more than adaquite. I'd prefer to go your route too if I was going that way, but it isn't the question.

[RToyo86]

If you are open to a build in that realm of budget maybe consider a FA24 swap?

Base output is regularly measured around or above most full bolt on E85 FA20s.

[Breadman]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

You got yours built with an IAG shortblock with reused heads and cams.

I mean i bought a fully complete and timed longblock that had the heads cleaned and machined, new valves, seats, and springs put in, new DI injectors put in, seals, a new oil pump, and it all timed. All i did was put plugs and coils in, put the manifold on and bigger port injectors, and alternator. Yeah it isn't 100% drop in but its 95% there was also a fraction of 40k. I honestly don't give a flying shit what what yall do with your money, but a question was asked and i gave my answer. Yall must be related to my old boss who would ask my opinion on things then do whatever she originally wanted lol



if you want to disingenuously frame it like that sure go ahead I personally don't care, but i didn't just but a shortblock and resued the heads and cams. If i did i'd have a fatter bank account

[blsfrs]

Originally Posted by RToyo86

If you are open to a build in that realm of budget maybe consider a FA24 swap?

Base output is regularly measured around or above most full bolt on E85 FA20s.

Can you easily do a FA24 swap into an early twin (2013-2016)? Seems to me that I read where crank and other sensors in 2017+ are more compatible with this swap.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Breadman

I mean i bought a fully complete and timed longblock that had the heads cleaned and machined, new valves, seats, and springs put in, new DI injectors put in, seals, a new oil pump, and it all timed. All i did was put plugs and coils in, put the manifold on and bigger port injectors, and alternator. Yeah it isn't 100% drop in but its 95% there was also a fraction of 40k. I honestly don't give a flying shit what what yall do with your money, but a question was asked and i gave my answer. Yall must be related to my old boss who would ask my opinion on things then do whatever she originally wanted lol



if you want to disingenuously frame it like that sure go ahead I personally don't care, but i didn't just but a shortblock and resued the heads and cams. If i did i'd have a fatter bank account

Did you not read that I agree with you? Like I said, that is not his question, sounds like he is more interested in finding out of there is some secret sauce to the HKS engine and he is interested in a long block with all new parts. You could have went new heads and cams and still be way under his price, I get you had your heads rebuilt, he didn't say rebuilt he said new. You made your point in your first post calling it "crackhead tier" and getting the OP defensive and you got pushback. Have a beer, toke, whatever and chill out and move on. No need to get bent out of shape, all you are doing is making anyone that reads this think your posts need treated with kiddie gloves.

Originally Posted by blsfrs

Can you easily do a FA24 swap into an early twin (2013-2016)? Seems to me that I read where crank and other sensors in 2017+ are more compatible with this swap.

I am thinking it is going to be similar to the 17+ swap with some more wrenches thrown in. I will probably be looking into it this winter.

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by RedReplicant

Eh, I mean on the same dyno:

My K24 car + DC drop in cams on 91: 192 wheel torque
My K24 car on 91: 177 wheel torque
My friend's stock FA24 car on 91: 173 wheel torque
My FBO FA20 car on 91: 152 wheel torque

It might work out best to wait until the path to drop a FA24 into a first gen works itself in... really hard to beat OEM reliability / price / etc.

In either case, I'd love to see how a HKS kit works out and I'd love to follow that build.

For me, that's not a worthwhile enough gain for the hassles and cost involved with doing a K-swap. Plus, I still don't like how they sound and I have to live with that every day. Several friends run in HC and I've discussed the swap with them at length. Ultimately, for what I need/want, it doesn't work.

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by Breadman

Ok so I paid under 13k for it and had extra parts that i sold. Also if you know so much why are you asking us?

I was just hoping someone had some insight at the baseline numbers, something I can't seem to find or get a response from the manufacturer on.


There also seems to be a discrepancy on their documentation saying that stock our engines are 11.9:1 and their modifications bring it "up" to 12.0:1. That seems to be a bit of a red flag.

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by terboboost

It's not too surprising for me that they don't provide HP/Torque numbers. Their complete engine is designed for forced induction, which means there is a MASSIVE variable (what turbo) that will determine the power numbers.

So you say "yea but they could put a HP limit number then"...except if they do that, then when Jonny Idiot decides to tune his 400 hp engine like garbage, and it blows, he goes back to HKS saying "you said it would handle 600 hp".

They go into detail on what is included with their built engine stages. Anyone who is considering buying this engine should have the ability to read between the lines and figure out what they think the engine's reasonable limit is.

That's the crazy part. They actually DO list what the engines are rated to at each stage. The lowest end Stage 0 being 395hp/470tq which is already more than the stock transmission can reliably handle.



My curiosity was more around the starting point because I don't know how to do the math on the stroke increase to power output. I'm looking to compare an all new stock FA20 vs the HKS S0 and see how much of a leg up the HKS gives you NA or if it's a step down with them expecting the engine to be boosted.


As I mentioned in another reply, their stated CR seems incorrect by a considerable amount so I would think their engine starts down a bit of power, just more "bulletproof".

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Eh, that's a bit of a stretch argument. He is asking about the HKS engine because he is interested in one complete with new parts and there is not much info on the HKS engine. You got yours built with an IAG shortblock with reused heads and cams. Yes that may be more economical and more than adaquite. I'd prefer to go your route too if I was going that way, but it isn't the question.

This. I have 2 FA20s of questionable reliability of parts. If I have to purchase a 3rd and start Frankensteining parts together then try to sell off spares, it's just not a road I want to go down.

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by RToyo86

If you are open to a build in that realm of budget maybe consider a FA24 swap?

Base output is regularly measured around or above most full bolt on E85 FA20s.

Oh, I'm definitely not dropping $40k on this engine build. I'm trying to do the research on all my options. Plus I don't want to do a conversion. I'll settle for a little less power with 0 headaches.

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by Breadman

I mean i bought a fully complete and timed longblock that had the heads cleaned and machined, new valves, seats, and springs put in, new DI injectors put in, seals, a new oil pump, and it all timed. All i did was put plugs and coils in, put the manifold on and bigger port injectors, and alternator. Yeah it isn't 100% drop in but its 95% there was also a fraction of 40k. I honestly don't give a flying shit what what yall do with your money, but a question was asked and i gave my answer. Yall must be related to my old boss who would ask my opinion on things then do whatever she originally wanted lol



if you want to disingenuously frame it like that sure go ahead I personally don't care, but i didn't just but a shortblock and resued the heads and cams. If i did i'd have a fatter bank account

It's all good, but you do realize the question asked was:
"Does anyone know where/if there are hp/tq numbers or (god willing) dyno sheets for the HKS FA20 complete engines run NA?"


Not: "Is it cheaper to build something else?"


I agree with you and in my original post I said straight up that $42k was off the wall. All I was looking for was a power baseline.

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Did you not read that I agree with you? Like I said, that is not his question, sounds like he is more interested in finding out of there is some secret sauce to the HKS engine and he is interested in a long block with all new parts. You could have went new heads and cams and still be way under his price, I get you had your heads rebuilt, he didn't say rebuilt he said new. You made your point in your first post calling it "crackhead tier" and getting the OP defensive and you got pushback. Have a beer, toke, whatever and chill out and move on. No need to get bent out of shape, all you are doing is making anyone that reads this think your posts need treated with kiddie gloves.



I am thinking it is going to be similar to the 17+ swap with some more wrenches thrown in. I will probably be looking into it this winter.

It's ok, I didn't take the comments harshly and wasn't being defensive. I knew those numbers are prohibitively high vs some other options before even delving into this. But you're right, I was looking for all net-new. I have 2 factory engines on hand. One was hydrolocked but I was able to revive it and it ran for a bit then something let go out of nowhere. Luckily that didn't happen on track, it would have been ugly. I don't trust that there aren't hidden stress issues internally that might spring up even after a rebuild. The other one was a 75k donor motor that I don't know the history of but it felt tired and after about 5k of commuting is beginning to smell of oil, worse on any spirited driving. So it's time to evaluate options while I've still got a functioning daily.


I'm really looking for something I can drop in and be at work the next day (or at least Monday morning) so complete assembly is my best bet. I could do that swap in about 4 hours. Also, most builders I've spoken with have a backlog now with the season ramping up so getting a custom build done is going to take several months while the HKS can be delivered in a week or two. Not losing out on a summer at the track is decent offset in the pricing. What's the old phrase, fast/reliable/cheap, pick 2?

[Uplink]

Ok, mystery solved. So after a bit of digging around their site (they have still not responded to my e-mail) I was able to find some ballpark numbers indirectly. If you look at the page for the camshaft they use in the Stage 0 engine, they have a dyno graph. Unfortunately, that graph is the 2.1L capacity kit + cams + supercharger... because of course it is. But if you look at the 2.1L capacity kit used in the Stage 0, it has a dyno graph of just that and the cams, NA. It's basically a little better than going with a 2017 FA20, netting +12hp and +18ft/lbs (209 & 169) over a stock 1st gen. But you're also getting a beefed up engine rated to well above the transmission's reliability plus it's a complete drop-in replacement. All-in, it's not a terrible option.

[terboboost]

Originally Posted by Uplink

Ok, mystery solved. So after a bit of digging around their site (they have still not responded to my e-mail) I was able to find some ballpark numbers indirectly. If you look at the page for the camshaft they use in the Stage 0 engine, they have a dyno graph. Unfortunately, that graph is the 2.1L capacity kit + cams + supercharger... because of course it is. But if you look at the 2.1L capacity kit used in the Stage 0, it has a dyno graph of just that and the cams, NA. It's basically a little better than going with a 2017 FA20, netting +12hp and +18ft/lbs (209 & 169) over a stock 1st gen. But you're also getting a beefed up engine rated to well above the transmission's reliability plus it's a complete drop-in replacement. All-in, it's not a terrible option.

Where did you find this dyno chart? I can't find anything on US or Japanese site.