Dealer Didn't Disclose Previous Damage

[dat 86 guy]

Hi all,

I have a few questions, I'm looking to get help from anyone that might be knowledgable on the subject or have advice as to what I should do.

I purchased my 2013 FR-S used, in July of 2014. Now let me say this, I couldn't have been happier, I'm 21 and was finally able to afford a car I really wanted, this was also my first car purchase 100% by myself. Which turned out to be a mistake, and I'll explain why.

The dealership I purchased my Scion from was King's Toyota in Cincinnati, Ohio. When I originally financed the car, it was for $24,XXX. It was immediately upside down due to my trade in being $2,000 less than what I owed. (First mistake, but I was well aware of this.)

Second, this car had just arrived at the dealer, it wasn't available for sale yet, but they did the inspections and were ready to sell it in a couple days. When I got back, ready to sign the papers and drive home in my new vehicle. They told me the car had been in a previous accident, but all they replaced was the front bumper and front passenger, tiny corner window. This being my first major purchase, I didn't think anything of it.

No big deal right? (Second mistake)

Now, I didn't sign any paper work regarding the accident or damage. They also didn't show me a CarFax and I also didn't think to ask for it as the title was clean, which I did ask about. (Third mistake)

This year, I drove to a few dealerships looking to test drive a few cars, something a bit bigger.

While I had no immediate intention of getting into something new, one of the dealers asked if I wanted to see my trade in value, so I said, why not.

Now remember, I payed $22,000 for this car.

They offered me a whopping $12,000...

While depreciation in these cars is pretty impressive. At 42,000 miles and "really good" condition, this was mind boggling to me.

Right as I was about to ask, "why?". They showed me the CarFax.

The car had a previously replaced engine at 6k miles and a taillight replacement all done by the same dealership I purchased it from, due to an accident by the original buyer. Not to mention the air bags did deploy.

This information was 100% new to me. All that was disclosed to me was the front bumper replacement and side window.

I went to get copies of all the sales paperwork for my purchase (without mentioning why). They told me they couldn't do it, I then asked to speak to a manger and all he did was take my name and number and said they'd mail it to me.

This was two+ weeks ago and no calls or letters in the mail.

My question to you guys is, do I contact the dealer?

Do I get a lawyer?

What might my options be?

I'd appreciate anything you guys could do or insight you might have.

If you have any questions, I might have left out I'll respond as soon as I can.



Edit 1: Thank you to all who have replied. I know this was overall my fault. I do plan to keep driving the car for a few years and pay it down. I still love the car and don't want to get rid of it.

I did pay too much. I realize this now.

Also, I didn't sign any paper work that stated the car was "as-is" the only papers I signed regarding that was my trade in, stating it was "as-is". The FR-S was also still under factory warranty when I purchased it. I bought it with 28,000 miles.

I'm going to go ahead and speak to a lawyer like most of you have said. I'm fully prepared to not have a case at all. With consumer law, if you win. The attorney fees are generally paid for by the other party. (Or at least this is what I've read.)

But you're right, if the lawyer thinks it would be a hard case, I will try and work something out with the dealer myself because the fees would be too much at this time.

[fumanchu1]

Wow that sucks balls Not a lawyer(although Ii do have several University common law courses) and also from Canada so I'll keep it general. You could always call a law office in your region and ask for advice on whether it is worth to pursue legal action (deceptive practice?).
Maybe call some kind of consumer protection agency and ask for advice on how to proceed.

I hope all gets resolved for you but at the very worst you learned how important doing your homework is before forking over large sums of money and that may save you from potentially losing out even more money in the future. If you can't take legal action I would recommend keeping the car(Instead of taking a giant hit on it!?)


Anyways good luck.

[dat 86 guy]

Thanks for the advice. I would ultimately like to keep the car, but I'd like to receive some sort of compensation for the lost equity. If they can't do that, a buy back. Then I'd at least have a clean plate to work from.

[strat61caster]

Here's Kentucky law on car buying:

http://ag.ky.gov/civil/consumerprote...ges/lemon.aspx


Note:

What rights do I have if there is a problem after I buy the car?

• Check the FTC Buyer's Guide which is required to be conspicuously posted. It will tell you whether the automobile is being sold "As Is". If there is a warranty, it will spell out specific details of the warranty. If sold "As Is", then you will not be able to get your money back or the auto repaired.

But also:

If you can prove very specific misrepresentations, you may have a claim for fraud or a private claim under KRS 367.220 for violation of the Consumer Protection Act. You might be able to revoke acceptance under the Uniform Commercial Code (KRS Chapter 355). You will need to consult a private attorney on these matters, however, as the Attorney General cannot represent individuals.

Edit: Sounds like you should call a local lawyer as the car was misrepresented to you. However due to the length of time since purchase and that people buy bum cars all the time I would be surprised if you got anything significant. There's all sorts of legal things you can do to make sure you actually get the money back and the lawyer doesn't swallow it all where lawyer fees are included in the settlement etc.

I've caught some articles by Steve Lehto, seems like reasonable advice, he may have already addressed it somewhere as well:

http://lehtoslaw.com/

[cdq85]

I am definitely no expert on the subject but some of the blame definitely lies on you. As a consumer, you have some responsibility to do your research and ask for that carfax. I don't know any dealers (at least around here) that wouldn't give you a copy. I absolutely agree that it's horseshit if they only told you it was a bumper cover, however, with nothing in writing I don't know if there's much to be done. Again, I am no expert but that's just how I see it. Sorry about your luck dude. That's why they made beer.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by cdq85

I am definitely no expert on the subject but some of the blame definitely lies on you. As a consumer, you have some responsibility to do your research and ask for that carfax. I don't know any dealers (at least around here) that wouldn't give you a copy. I absolutely agree that it's horseshit if they only told you it was a bumper cover, however, with nothing in writing I don't know if there's much to be done. Again, I am no expert but that's just how I see it. Sorry about your luck dude. That's why they made beer.

This ^ I am afraid. They did disclose that there was damage even if they did down play the extent. The problem lies that you signed a contract and the fine print is probably pretty clear that you were taking the car as presented. I doubt that you can prove that they only told you part of the story.
Sucks big time though.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by dat 86 guy

Hi all,

................. I'm 21 and was finally able to afford a car I really wanted,........


What might my options be?

I

Hello dat 86 guy and welcome to our forum ........

Well, like mentioned above, now you have gained an important life experience.

OK, you are 21 and you like (liked) the FR-S. So, it had a few bangs and got a new engine. Does it look good? Does it run good? Can you still fit your family in it?

If so, I suggest that you continue to drive it for a few more years (or until your family outgrows it).

Kind of like stocks ..... you don't lose any money until you sell.

Don't let that "bad deal" wreck up your enjoying the car.

Just be thankful your purchase wasn't a house, that you found out later was sitting on top of a sinkhole.


humfrz

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by dat 86 guy

Hi all,

I have a few questions, I'm looking to get help from anyone that might be knowledgable on the subject or have advice as to what I should do.

I purchased my 2013 FR-S used, in July of 2014. Now let me say this, I couldn't have been happier, I'm 21 and was finally able to afford a car I really wanted, this was also my first car purchase 100% by myself. Which turned out to be a mistake, and I'll explain why.

The dealership I purchased my Scion from was King's Toyota in Cincinnati, Ohio. When I originally financed the car, it was for $24,XXX. It was immediately upside down due to my trade in being $2,000 less than what I owed. (First mistake, but I was well aware of this.)

Second, this car had just arrived at the dealer, it wasn't available for sale yet, but they did the inspections and were ready to sell it in a couple days. When I got back, ready to sign the papers and drive home in my new vehicle. They told me the car had been in a previous accident, but all they replaced was the front bumper and front passenger, tiny corner window. This being my first major purchase, I didn't think anything of it.

No big deal right? (Second mistake)

Now, I didn't sign any paper work regarding the accident or damage. They also didn't show me a CarFax and I also didn't think to ask for it as the title was clean, which I did ask about. (Third mistake)

This year, I drove to a few dealerships looking to test drive a few cars, something a bit bigger.

While I had no immediate intention of getting into something new, one of the dealers asked if I wanted to see my trade in value, so I said, why not.

Now remember, I payed $22,000 for this car.

They offered me a whopping $12,000...

While depreciation in these cars is pretty impressive. At 42,000 miles and "really good" condition, this was mind boggling to me.

Right as I was about to ask, "why?". They showed me the CarFax.

The car had a previously replaced engine at 6k miles and a taillight replacement all done by the same dealership I purchased it from, due to an accident by the original buyer. Not to mention the air bags did deploy.

This information was 100% new to me. All that was disclosed to me was the front bumper replacement and side window.

I went to get copies of all the sales paperwork for my purchase (without mentioning why). They told me they couldn't do it, I then asked to speak to a manger and all he did was take my name and number and said they'd mail it to me.

This was two+ weeks ago and no calls or letters in the mail.

My question to you guys is, do I contact the dealer?

Do I get a lawyer?

What might my options be?

I'd appreciate anything you guys could do or insight you might have.

If you have any questions, I might have left out I'll respond as soon as I can.

Sorry man I see two routes:
1) Get a lawyer who will then on your behalf do the thinks you said i.e contact the dealer and find your options.
2) Realize this is essentially your fault, I know it seems harsh, but you bought a used vehicle with no warranty expressed in written form or implied, and it is your responsibility to do the due diligence on the vehicle i.e. going to a dmv and seeing the vehicle info based on V.I.N., and paying for CarFax on the vehicle or asking the dealer to pay for it otherwise walking

Take this statement with a grain of salt:
"
While most used car sales are "as is" transactions, sellers do have some obligations under used car law. The main obligation that you have as a seller in many states is to disclose whether the car is a salvage vehicle, meaning, was it ever in an accident and declared a total loss? If the car in question was not repainted because of an accident and doesn't have a salvage title, based on used car law, the buyer can't require you to take it back based on the fact that it was painted.

Based on used car law, the duty here is on the buyer to inspect the car, ask his questions, and make sure the car meets his needs up front, before the transaction takes place. Because he didn't do that in this case and didn't confirm whether the car was painted or repainted, it is his loss that he didn't check and you're not going to have to give back the money or pay any damages if he does sue you. Based on used car law, he has no legal grounds based on the set of facts presented and his case should be dismissed if he tries to bring it."



Honestly, you can take action and find out for yourself, but what I believe will happen is you'll lose more money getting a lawyer and losing a case, you're a 21 year old guy that had a honey moon phase over getting it any who and didn't do any digging on a USED car. You enjoyed the car regardless of it having been in an accident so why not just keep enjoying it?

[Impureclient]

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...fax_inacc.html

I just read a few reviews in there and it appears even if the CARFAX was clean when you bought it, it doesn't mean anything later as accidents mysteriously appear. There are reviews where a car is 100% not in an accident and the CARFAX shows it was.
Maybe that's what you are dealing with? I'd bring it into a body shop and have them comb it over and see what's what.
Basically it sounds like CARFAX is not reliable at all. Even though I vaguely remember looking at the screen for Car fax when I bought mine a few months ago,
I'm going back in to see the one on my car again and check as mine had 3K miles on it when I purchased.
Good luck with everything.

[Fishbed77]

The dealer informed you the car had been in an accident, you didn't request a Carfax, and honestly, you paid too much for the car (knowing it had been in a collision). On top of this, you traded in a car that put you underwater on your previous loan. If you tried to pursue legal action, you have no way to prove in court what the dealer told you the extent of the damage was, and even if you could, legal fees are expensive.

In my opinion, your best bet is to keep driving and enjoying the car until the point where the depreciation/lost value doesn't matter much, and consider this a very valuable lesson learned. We all make mistakes sometimes. Lord knows I have. What matters is that you learn from them.

[Dake]

The short answer is, "Ask a lawyer."

The longer answer is what others here have said - you're probably out of luck. Carfax is far from perfect (the biggest flaw is they rely on self-reporting), but it's better than nothing and there is literally no excuse to not get one. You put yourself in the hole 2k to buy this car but you didn't spend the extra 40 bucks? Never mind that any decent dealer should offer you that or an Autocheck for free in this day and age.

And of course, you can also get Autocheck for free anyway with this helpful hint.

Ultimately you have to prove the dealer misrepresented the damage and with nothing in writing you'll be stuck. If it's running well, just enjoy the car, pay it off and you'll do better next time.

[Braces]

I would still try to negotiate with the dealership. You never know what may come of it. Maybe they can comp some additional warranty. You made a mistake, but we all make mistakes and you will learn from this.

On the positive side ... Sounds like you have a new motor. Drive the car. Move on and be wiser next time.

[raven1231]

Kings Toyota providing shitty customer service once again! Sorry to hear about your situation man.

[Namuna]

What's the outcome you'd be looking for here? If it's monetary compensation for misrepresenting the true extent of damage originally done to the vehicle? You're (or rather your lawyer is) fighting a pretty steep uphill battle to prove anything beyond what's on the contracts...And even if you did get something out of it, that lawyer wasn't free and the amount of time required to go through the process won't be quick either.

Now that you've got the proper mindset...DO IT ANYWAY!!

Yeah, okay you're partly to blame because you were awestruck at the time because you were finally able to afford a car you loved...To which the dealership took full advantage of and played that against you.

Seek legal guidance and take these predators to court (or better yet, come to an agreement and resolve with a settlement). Even if it's a wash and whatever you get out of it is trivial, you've got the piece of mind of knowing you caused that dealership to lose time and money with their own lawyers having to fight the case (a form of 'compensation' in and of itself).

Good luck with whatever you decide.