Dealer Didn't Disclose Previous Damage

[slicktop]

Let this lesson sink in. At least it wasn't learned during the housing bubble like a lot of people. This is a relatively "cheap" lesson at that.













And damn, you paid WAY too much for that car. That's brand new car value.

[Fishbed77]

But honestly there isn't enough money involved for a reputable lawyer to give a shit about it.

One of the best nuggets of advice in this thread.

[Ashikabi]

My dealer claimed they had all the keys. When I showed up to get the car they just had the valet key and said they couldn't find the others cuz the guy I worked the deal with wasn't in yet, and they'd mail them to me. Guess what?... they had lost the keys and refused to fix it because "they had sold the car too low to make a profit if they had new keys made." So guess who doesn't have keyless entry?

Never trust a dealer.

[chulooz]

Contact a few different lawyers - the dealer misrepresented your purchase in a way that greatly impacts the value of the car; no one would play $24k+ for a car that was so beat up. (If all the accident info was public it will be a harder claim against them but still talk to a lawyer because dishonest dealerships need to burn)

Also realize the cost of your mistake is the money you will lose selling the car... that only happens if you actually sell the car - so unless you NEED it gone you are better off keeping it. Also dont trade it in t0 the stealership, selling privately is the way to go. (I hope you'll be more honest than the dealer)

[NOHOME]

Dont waste time with the dealership. They screwed you as a joke and are living off the profits; it's what they do.

A more satisfying route is small claims court. Does not really matter if you have a case or not. It is cheap, its very educational and can actually be kind of fun if you are of the right mindset.

If you file in small claims, you wont stand to get a huge chunk of money; what you will do is burn the dealerships money and time. They may or may not send a lawyer down to respond. If they do send a lawyer, that is even better because he will burn the dealer way worse than they burned you.

The other thing I learned in small claims is that most try to do a mediation before it goes before the judge. This is fun because the mediator is a bit more common sense based. "Listen, I know you are within the letter of the law but you did deliberately screw this guy over" is the way mediators deal with things. Mediation is NOT binding so if you don't like what the mediator says, then go to the judge. Small claims does NOT award legal fees since it is meant to be a lawyer-less process, so you should not have to fear that. (I speak of Ontario).

Personally, I think you just got a good albeit expensive education in how dishonest ALL car dealers are. These are things they must do to survive. The good news is that you wont be making this mistake again.

If the car is driving OK, I would not worry too much as long as you plan to keep it five years or so. My car took a hit that needed a fender and a door and I could care less since it was repaired nicely and I will drive it for ten years and scrap or give it away to a family member or friend.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

Dont waste time with the dealership. They screwed you as a joke and are living off the profits; it's what they do.

A more satisfying route is small claims court. Does not really matter if you have a case or not. It is cheap, its very educational and can actually be kind of fun if you are of the right mindset.

If you file in small claims, you wont stand to get a huge chunk of money; what you will do is burn the dealerships money and time. They may or may not send a lawyer down to respond. If they do send a lawyer, that is even better because he will burn the dealer way worse than they burned you.

The other thing I learned in small claims is that most try to do a mediation before it goes before the judge. This is fun because the mediator is a bit more common sense based. "Listen, I know you are within the letter of the law but you did deliberately screw this guy over" is the way mediators deal with things. Mediation is NOT binding so if you don't like what the mediator says, then go to the judge. Small claims does NOT award legal fees since it is meant to be a lawyer-less process, so you should not have to fear that. (I speak of Ontario).

Personally, I think you just got a good albeit expensive education in how dishonest ALL car dealers are. These are things they must do to survive. The good news is that you wont be making this mistake again.

If the car is driving OK, I would not worry too much as long as you plan to keep it five years or so. My car took a hit that needed a fender and a door and I could care less since it was repaired nicely and I will drive it for ten years and scrap or give it away to a family member or friend.

Does filing a nuisance claim (with no real hope of any substantial settlement) against the dealer not perpetuate the issue? The dealer is not likely to learn a lesson and now their margin just got smaller and they have to screw over the next guy to make it up. That is presuming they intentionally misled the guy in the first place.
We have very little to go on from the OP other than the vague description of what the car fax said. It could very well be that the dealer didn't know anymore then what they told the buyer at that time and were not out to screw anybody. All we ever hear is one side of the story on these things and the masses always take the buyer's story as the gospel truth and condemn the dealer with little or no background facts. It is not reasonable to say that every car dealer is crooked. There are certainly more than some other businesses but there are also some very good and honest dealers.

[RustySocket]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

My dealer claimed they had all the keys. When I showed up to get the car they just had the valet key and said they couldn't find the others cuz the guy I worked the deal with wasn't in yet, and they'd mail them to me. Guess what?... they had lost the keys and refused to fix it because "they had sold the car too low to make a profit if they had new keys made." So guess who doesn't have keyless entry?

Never trust a dealer.

I have purchased no less than 30 cars, probably more. I love to negotiate and enjoy the process. Every time I get to the finance office, and I mean EVERY time, I was asked to sign a form(A DUE BILL) that states the deal is complete and that other than what is listed on that form. It's typically shit just like you described, a second key, some floor mats, or some other trinket that I absolutely stalled the deal on until they gave in. If it is not on that form, they don't owe it to you. I learned this lesson early on in my life when a car dealer did the same thing to me and I got shorted.


I can tell real quickly if I am dealing with a reputable dealer or not simply by how the finance guy presents a due bill to me (Mine are never supposed to be blank, I always negotiate something into the deal). If I make it into the financing (Should be called UPSELL Crap you don't NEED OFFICE) and that form is presented to me blank. I go over the terms of the deal again, or I start filling it out myself. Years ago I was presented with a real treat of a finance guy who couldn't stop trying to sell me the extended warranty I wrote "Free Gas for life" on the due bill while looking him in the eye. He finally shut up about extended warranties and no, I did not get free gas for life. But I got him focused on the task at hand that was important to me and not him and I got my negotiated car mats. If they say they will mail them to me, I ask that it be noted on the form. It's just good business.


My point is simply this. If the dealer owes you something they can't deliver at the point of sale, GET IT IN WRITING, nothing else matters


Listen up folks, Car dealers exist for one reason, it is to sell cars. They don't care how they do it, they don't get paid until they move inventory. It is as simple as that. I don't fault them for it, in fact I admire them. They are the best of the best salespeople. That's why they are selling cars and not washers and dryers at BestBuy.


Car dealers are not all dishonest, they are just doing there job, which is to take a used car that somebody else didn't want anymore and present the positives to a buyer who can't or doesn't want to buy a new car. They are not going to focus on the negatives, that would be stupid. They are going to emotionally tie you to the car and urge you to make a decision NOW. That's what makes them good salespeople.


To a certain extent I think it would be a good experience for the OP to pursue the small claims route. Not because I believe he will prevail, but because it will be a great life lesson and emphasize how the real world works. As far as whether or not that changes the buying experience for the next person at that dealership... who gives a crap. The dealer will either survive or it won't. Given the number of deals they make I can almost assure you with 99% certainty that the paper trail is going to show full disclosure, the car was purchased AS-IS, and the buyer signed off on it prior to taking delivery when you get to court. Bear in mind that in order to recover anything you will have to prove diminished value, which will be nearly impossible on a used car, that by your own admission you had knowledge of being in an accident. It is the degree of damage, which the carfax will show as being fixed, that is in question. You will be asked under oath if you had a vehicle inspection done and all the other things that are just proper due diligence when buying a used car, and I think those facts will work against you.


Anyway, good luck to you. Let us know how it turns out.


EDIT:


OP, I've been here thinking about your situation and I really do feel for you. I don't want you to think your being trashed on for how things went down. Everyone of us has made some poor decisions in our lives and we all will do so again.


In reviewing this thread I gleaned some information in the post by @strat61caster regarding the lawyer Steve Lehto. I wasn't sure where I recognized that name and it came to me that one time when I was really angry about a car situation I was involved in I came across his name and had listened to some of his podcasts. Here is one in particular that you should listen to:


https://soundcloud.com/stevelehto/ho...car-sale-ep-42


Steve describes a situation with one of his clients and how it came to a positive resolution. Pay particular attention to what he says at the 15:10 mark about how the laws have changed and the costs involved regarding lawyers fees.


Bottom line and keep this in perspective: You own a wonderful car, short of my Cayman S it is hands down the best handling car I've owned in stock form. It is well balanced, easy an d inexpensive to work on, has tons of aftermarket support and overall just a fun car to drive. Take yourself mentally back to that day you took it home, remember the excitement and how much fun it was to go out and see it in your driveway and know it was yours. You will recover from this, just keep your thoughts rational, stick to the facts and move forward the best way you can. Nobody here, well at least not me, is judging you or your decisions. Being over twice your age has allowed me the privilege of making the mistakes and given me some expensive hindsight along the way. Just don't let it consume you.

[NOHOME]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Does filing a nuisance claim (with no real hope of any substantial settlement) against the dealer not perpetuate the issue? The dealer is not likely to learn a lesson and now their margin just got smaller and they have to screw over the next guy to make it up. That is presuming they intentionally misled the guy in the first place.
We have very little to go on from the OP other than the vague description of what the car fax said. It could very well be that the dealer didn't know anymore then what they told the buyer at that time and were not out to screw anybody. All we ever hear is one side of the story on these things and the masses always take the buyer's story as the gospel truth and condemn the dealer with little or no background facts. It is not reasonable to say that every car dealer is crooked. There are certainly more than some other businesses but there are also some very good and honest dealers.

And that is why small claims court has a mediator on offer before you end up in front of the Judge. They listen to both sides and make sure that everything from each side is on the table. They are good at cutting past the emotions and explaining the facts to each side.

Are you wasting the dealers time? Maybe but if they pulled off a deal that left a client this unhappy, they have some learning to do.

Is it a nuisance claim? Not for us to decide.