Raybestos Rotors?

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by churchx

solidONE: i see that at least cooling vane/slot count differs for them. No clue from pics on internal shape. As all are iron, cannot think from where difference may come. There is no dirt trapped in vanes of old rotors that may block air passage by chance? Hmm. Or rust (inside vanes, where pads won't clear it) .. out of curiosity, what do you think of soaking old rotors in some rust removing solution applied inside vanes & recheck temps on old centrics after such procedure?

The number and shape of vanes on all 3 brands are the same. Only difference in the vanes that I can see is due to difference in the quality of the casting. Very slightly different visually. I inspected all the rotors very closely. Besides surface rust there are no obstructions. Maybe the slight difference in the casting along with possibly different composition of the metal, rust, anti rust coating contributed to the heat retention/dissipation characteristics? Who knows?

I don't think I'll go as far as removing rust on the old rotors. I've gathered enough 'data' to convince myself to not replace the rotors with Centrics brand. I may even pay a few bux more for OE next time or another set of raybestos.

Also, totally anecdotal, I've spoke with an imprezza STI owner who also found that his brake overheated more easily after replacing his stock rotors with Centric brand replacements.. So, I'm not the only one that thinks the Centrics run hotter than OEM rotors.

[ZionsWrath]

Meh, i still vote for AP kit lol

Feels good not even thinking about brakes, plus they look cool, and you should get back half your money when you sell them used. Or buy a used set when you see one.

I have these brake "issues" on my other car. I lost count how many rotors, pads, calipers i been through and its just my DD

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

Meh, i still vote for AP kit lol

Feels good not even thinking about brakes, plus they look cool, and you should get back half your money when you sell them used. Or buy a used set when you see one.

I have these brake "issues" on my other car. I lost count how many rotors, pads, calipers i been through and its just my DD

You're probably right.. I should just 'make it rain' on a BBK. And by 'make it rain' I mean Paypal credit with 6 months deferred payment. LMAO

Here's the run I did the tests on in case anyone was curious.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Glen...040017!1m0!3e0

Not a long run, but you can probably imagine how much hotter the brakes can get if you were to go for consecutive runs or a more 'spirited' pace.

[finch1750]

Can you get a measurement on the Centrics remaining width? I would imagine less mass means less ability to absorb heat and contributes some to the higher reading?

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by finch1750

Can you get a measurement on the Centrics remaining width? I would imagine less mass means less ability to absorb heat and contributes some to the higher reading?

They're actually not that worn down, but I will measure and weigh both when I get a chance to. They looked a bit glazed before. Thats why I wanted to replace them. Though, after I threw on the HC+ pads they don't look so bad anymore.

[solidONE]

@finch1750
Raybestos front rotor weight: 16 lbs 11.6 oz.


Rotor thickness: 23.91mm


Centric front rotor weight: 16 lbs. 12.1 oz.


Rotor thickness: 23.83mm


Size and weight difference seems minimal.

I've already done 100mph to 0mph test on the Raybestos will update with results after testing the Centrics. Standby.

[solidONE]

I was about to get some temps last night but got rolled up by sherriff as I was measuring starting temps.. Got it done just now though.

Test 5-16-18:

Raybestos rotors + HC+800 pads

Ambient: 65*f

Starting rotor temps:

Front rotor 95*f
Rear rotor 90*f

100-0 x1:

Front rotor 220*f
Rear rotor 145*f

100-0 x2:

Front rotor 345*f
Rear rotor 181*f

6-5-18
Centric front/ Raybestos rear rotors + HC+800 pads

Ambient: 65*f

Starting rotor temps:

Front rotor 100*f
Rear rotor 85*f

100-0 x1:

Front rotor 233*f
Rear rotor 151*f

100-0 x2:

Front rotor 359*f
Rear rotor 174*f

100-0 x3:

Front rotor 465*f
Rear rotor 213*f

Note: I could not get the starting temps exactly like with Raybestos rotors all about (95 front 90 rear) as it seems like the Centric rotors cooled at a slower rate than the Raybestos. 100 front 85 rear was the closest I could get. The difference after 2 x 100mph to full stop was pretty similar. Not enough difference to say one is clearly better or cooled better than the other.

Conclusion: Not 100% conclusive. Although now we know Raybestos rotors are a good alternative to centric as OEM replacement blanks. Though the results makes me wonder about factory rotors. They have the anti-rust coating on them like the Centric rotors I tested. Would they perform closer to the non-coated Raybestos or the similarly coated Centrics? I'm curious but not curious enough to buy another set of rotors. "it is what it is" as they say haha

[JSube]

Originally Posted by solidONE

You're probably right.. I should just 'make it rain' on a BBK. And by 'make it rain' I mean Paypal credit with 6 months deferred payment. LMAO

Here's the run I did the tests on in case anyone was curious.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Glen...040017!1m0!3e0

Not a long run, but you can probably imagine how much hotter the brakes can get if you were to go for consecutive runs or a more 'spirited' pace.

If you haven't pulled the trigger yet on a BBK, I'd encourage you to talk with CSG Mike. He's logged a lot of track miles on their test/track car and has a wealth of knowledge. And he's more of a researcher than a salesman, imo.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by JSube

If you haven't pulled the trigger yet on a BBK, I'd encourage you to talk with CSG Mike. He's logged a lot of track miles on their test/track car and has a wealth of knowledge. And he's more of a researcher than a salesman, imo.

Lol

Main reason I've not "pull the trigger" is because I really don't have a need for BBK. I rarely if ever get to track nowadays and maybe go up the mountains once a week. Really cannot justify the purchase. For my uses atm they're way overkill. Nice to have, definitely, but hey...

Another note on the raybestos vs centric rotor is that if I were to have done the 100mph to full stop test consecutively like 10 times, I'm sure the difference would have been more pronounced like the difference between the 5 mile downhill runs. From 100 to full stop times 2 the difference was about 15* between the rotors. I'd wager that the difference between the rotor temps at 100-0 x 10 would be more.

At the end of the day.. If I'm going to spend $70-100 on a pair of rotors, then why not spend it on the set that run slightly cooler? That's where I'm at with this right now.

[JSube]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Lol

Main reason I've not "pull the trigger" is because I really don't have a need for BBK. I rarely if ever get to track nowadays and maybe go up the mountains once a week. Really cannot justify the purchase. For my uses atm they're way overkill. Nice to have, definitely, but hey...

Another note on the raybestos vs centric rotor is that if I were to have done the 100mph to full stop test consecutively like 10 times, I'm sure the difference would have been more pronounced like the difference between the 5 mile downhill runs. From 100 to full stop times 2 the difference was about 15* between the rotors. I'd wager that the difference between the rotor temps at 100-0 x 10 would be more.

At the end of the day.. If I'm going to spend $70-100 on a pair of rotors, then why not spend it on the set that run slightly cooler? That's where I'm at with this right now.

I think I misunderstood your interest level in the performance stuff. I agree that if you're not going to the track more than a couple times a year a BBK isn't worth the $$$ at all. Just buy pads & change your fluid and go happily on your way. Also, an oil cooler is a smart thing to have, track or not, but that's another conversation.
My car came with Brembos for a modest upcharge so that was already taken care of. FWIW, I have 12-14 on-track days in the past 12 months on my stock rotors and they look beautiful, so for me, your testing is interesting but our cars are Miata level friendly on consumables.
If you have any money burning a hole in your pocket get the ACE header & tune, it's a beautiful thing. Also, I can't remember the last time I bought something significant and DIDN'T use PP Credit!

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by JSube

I think I misunderstood your interest level in the performance stuff. I agree that if you're not going to the track more than a couple times a year a BBK isn't worth the $$$ at all. Just buy pads & change your fluid and go happily on your way. Also, an oil cooler is a smart thing to have, track or not, but that's another conversation.
My car came with Brembos for a modest upcharge so that was already taken care of. FWIW, I have 12-14 on-track days in the past 12 months on my stock rotors and they look beautiful, so for me, your testing is interesting but our cars are Miata level friendly on consumables.
If you have any money burning a hole in your pocket get the ACE header & tune, it's a beautiful thing. Also, I can't remember the last time I bought something significant and DIDN'T use PP Credit!

I'd sooner the oil cooler than the BBK. I've been swapping between 0w-20 and 0w-30 oils depending on the season all the while. I've met the people from ACE in Taiwan, but sadly for myself, many months later than David. I can attest that any and all of their stuff is solid. Though, being budget conscious (aka cheap) I've been on a similarly performing long tube header I traded my EL Tomei for using a tune that I concocted myself over the years. Definitely superior in terms of cost/benefit, but not much else compared to ACE's offerings.

Every time I stop by the Subi dealership for parts I catch myself staring at the PP equipped BRZ and now the tS. I like it a lot, but not enough to trade in my MY13 FRS. Again.. as much as I like the new BRZ I cannot justify the cost of over $15K plus my current car to get into one.

[JSube]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I'd sooner the oil cooler than the BBK. I've been swapping between 0w-20 and 0w-30 oils depending on the season all the while. I've met the people from ACE in Taiwan, but sadly for myself, many months later than David. I can attest that any and all of their stuff is solid. Though, being budget conscious (aka cheap) I've been on a similarly performing long tube header I traded my EL Tomei for using a tune that I concocted myself over the years. Definitely superior in terms of cost/benefit, but not much else compared to ACE's offerings.

Every time I stop by the Subi dealership for parts I catch myself staring at the PP equipped BRZ and now the tS. I like it a lot, but not enough to trade in my MY13 FRS. Again.. as much as I like the new BRZ I cannot justify the cost of over $15K plus my current car to get into one.

Your resourcefulness is exemplary, it seems things often go horribly wrong for most forum people "concocting tunes" but you obviously know your s**t

I've switched to a 5-30W Motul after reading GSpeed's oil pressure testing results. You've probs seen the thread, but if not I think you'll find it interesting-
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91820

It's also nice to hear from someone else (in the business?) who verifies the goodness of the ACE products. I've been really happy with the changes after my header install, but don't have any personal comparisons with others. And I think Delicious got all the benefit out of it for me.

Yeah, dealership showrooms can cast a spell on you (until the sales staff starts talking, anyway) and I'm really glad the PP came along just as I was ready to part ways with my STI. It's a good first BRZ to have. But as you've invested time, thought and some $$ in your '13, trading for something very similar doesn't really make sense. I'm just back from a track weekend where I met a driver with an FRS. I'm pretty certain he was having as much fun as I was.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by JSube

Your resourcefulness is exemplary, it seems things often go horribly wrong for most forum people "concocting tunes" but you obviously know your s**t

I've switched to a 5-30W Motul after reading GSpeed's oil pressure testing results. You've probs seen the thread, but if not I think you'll find it interesting-
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91820

It's also nice to hear from someone else (in the business?) who verifies the goodness of the ACE products. I've been really happy with the changes after my header install, but don't have any personal comparisons with others. And I think Delicious got all the benefit out of it for me.

Yeah, dealership showrooms can cast a spell on you (until the sales staff starts talking, anyway) and I'm really glad the PP came along just as I was ready to part ways with my STI. It's a good first BRZ to have. But as you've invested time, thought and some $$ in your '13, trading for something very similar doesn't really make sense. I'm just back from a track weekend where I met a driver with an FRS. I'm pretty certain he was having as much fun as I was.

Thanks. Making changes to the car that can cause damage is not very cost effective, is it? lmao. Plenty of guys on here playing with open format tuning to learn a thing or two without breaking the piggy bank.

I've been in the auto aftermarket and OEM related field since the late 90's, so I've been around. The "import tuning" side has progressed a lot since then.. kind of. Went from clear corner lights, dynomax muffler shop exhausts and hyper blinkers to gaudy body modifications made using 1000lbs of bondo that has zero aerodynamic benefit and now "illest Stance Nation" Flip side is that going around corners quickly and burning rubber going sideways has gained much more popularity than burning rubber going in a straight line.

Glad to hear you are using that BRZ well and have approached your mods very intelligently to suit your uses.

[churchx]

I'd really would like to find out WHAT really is causing differences between (almost same to my eye) rotors though :/
I guess, very few did comparisons between oem replacement rotors that (almost obviously) should be same so didn't bother, material same iron, vanes count & shape almost same, so what is the culprit? :/ If there would be any difference in finish, it should quickly equalize after heavy brake use/bedding imho.
Almost as if it might be worthwhile to test all available oem rotor options out there for maybe even more unexpected surprises and/or to know more what to expect of supposedly known products.