Why the Toyota 86 is a Great Car.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Yoniyama

In another words, the real production run at the Gunma Main Plant only commences in May 2015.

Haven't they already made over a hundred thousand cars there? That sure seems like a real production run to me...

[Fortis]

I was a member of CLUBRSX for several years and GOLFMKV for a few years after that. I can honestly say I've never seen so many people gripe and complain about their own cars. This forum is riddled with threads on what changes should be made to the car, what ppl don't like about the car, this car isn't fast enough, etc, etc... I just don't get it... The twins are amazing. Striking good looks, excellent handling, low center of gravity, near 50/50 weight distribution, surprisingly compliant ride, lightweight, 200 HP NA boxer engine, stock shift light, rev matching, RWD, LSD, super comfy sport seats AND "room" for 4 passengers. At ~$25K, what more do you expect??? I'm glad to see that there are ppl in this thread that feel the same as I. I think if this car was released in 2005-2007, people would feel differently. As others have mentioned, this horsepower war the last few years that auto makers are having is just killing it for cars like the twins. Shame

[Fish Eagle]

Originally Posted by Fortis

I was a member of CLUBRSX for several years and GOLFMKV for a few years after that. I can honestly say I've never seen so many people gripe and complain about their own cars. This forum is riddled with threads on what changes should be made to the car, what ppl don't like about the car, this car isn't fast enough, etc, etc... I just don't get it... The twins are amazing. Striking good looks, excellent handling, low center of gravity, near 50/50 weight distribution, surprisingly compliant ride, lightweight, 200 HP NA boxer engine, stock shift light, rev matching, RWD, LSD, super comfy sport seats AND "room" for 4 passengers. At ~$25K, what more do you expect??? I'm glad to see that there are ppl in this thread that feel the same as I. I think if this car was released in 2005-2007, people would feel differently. As others have mentioned, this horsepower war the last few years that auto makers are having is just killing it for cars like the twins. Shame

Yep, I agree 100%
Except I went FI, but I loved my car when it was NA too.

I'd like to add to your list that it's an amazing track day car too.
I've owned 40+ cars over the years, many of them sporty high performance cars, and none have put as big a smile on my face as my 86.

[1086]

Originally Posted by Ponwh

The problem with the world is that, people always want more.

Interesting narrow minded comment - surprised you receive that many 'thanks'. How is that a problem with the world to want more? We wouldn't be where we are at today if we didn't want more. Hence the birth (re-birth) of the 86. So in essence you make absolutely no sense when you call it a "problem". The real problem is when people claim that it is a problem to want more, when indeed it is not and never will be.

BOOM.

[AznKirby]

Originally Posted by Fortis

I was a member of CLUBRSX for several years and GOLFMKV for a few years after that. I can honestly say I've never seen so many people gripe and complain about their own cars. This forum is riddled with threads on what changes should be made to the car, what ppl don't like about the car, this car isn't fast enough, etc, etc... I just don't get it... The twins are amazing. Striking good looks, excellent handling, low center of gravity, near 50/50 weight distribution, surprisingly compliant ride, lightweight, 200 HP NA boxer engine, stock shift light, rev matching, RWD, LSD, super comfy sport seats AND "room" for 4 passengers. At ~$25K, what more do you expect??? I'm glad to see that there are ppl in this thread that feel the same as I. I think if this car was released in 2005-2007, people would feel differently. As others have mentioned, this horsepower war the last few years that auto makers are having is just killing it for cars like the twins. Shame

You must not have been a member for very long

[Fortis]

Originally Posted by AznKirby

You must not have been a member for very long

2001-2007. Long enough.

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by dem00n

WOAH.

Who dissed the First Gen Ford Taurus?

The SHO model had a manual transmission by Mazda and one of the greatest V6's ever made, Yamaha made it!

To be fair, in one sentence you've mentioned the ONLY two things that made this car stand out: it's Yamaha developed engine and the fact that it had a manual transmission. Back in the late 80s, having a quick revving, 24V DOHC power plant and manual transmission in a domestic sedan made this car special. It's build quality, F/R balance, dull steering feel, mediocre suspension, average brakes, and hopeless torque steer made it anything but.

[Ponwh]

Originally Posted by 1086

Interesting narrow minded comment - surprised you receive that many 'thanks'. How is that a problem with the world to want more? We wouldn't be where we are at today if we didn't want more. Hence the birth (re-birth) of the 86. So in essence you make absolutely no sense when you call it a "problem". The real problem is when people claim that it is a problem to want more, when indeed it is not and never will be.

BOOM.

See, what you're referring to is innovation.
What im referring to is laziness.

Many people want this engine to be turboed, supercharged, etc, out from the factory. I believe the designer of this car (I believe his name is Tada) just wanted it to be a perfectly balanced platform (stock) and let us modify it the way we want. This way it gives every owner a sense of unique-ness while at the same time being a driver's car that is purchaseable like the 80s-90s era.

boom.

[Deep Six]

The original post was very well written, perhaps the first on this subject that accurately captures the essence of this car which is a great driver's car straight from the factory. Also glad to see that the typical civil war didn't start between the "modders" and the "stockers". IMHO this car offers a lot for either as it retains it's basic character even when modified to reach a higher performance envelope.

Refreshing read without the typical torque dip bashing or dissing the driving skills of anyone wanting to modify the car from stock.

[dem00n]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

To be fair, in one sentence you've mentioned the ONLY two things that made this car stand out: it's Yamaha developed engine and the fact that it had a manual transmission. Back in the late 80s, having a quick revving, 24V DOHC power plant and manual transmission in a domestic sedan made this car special. It's build quality, F/R balance, dull steering feel, mediocre suspension, average brakes, and hopeless torque steer made it anything but.

Still a great little car, sure it was no M3, there's a reason why they're so cheap. They're fun and good little hooligan machines. Easy to work on as well. That Mazda transmission was smooth as well, that's a stand out point. When Mazda made a transmission for you, it was fucking good.

People could say the same thing about the FRS.

Slow, horrible paint, bad quality, horrible rear suspension. List goes on.


You're really going to complain about a $2000 car?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Fortis

I was a member of CLUBRSX for several years and GOLFMKV for a few years after that. I can honestly say I've never seen so many people gripe and complain about their own cars. This forum is riddled with threads on what changes should be made to the car, what ppl don't like about the car, this car isn't fast enough, etc, etc... I just don't get it... The twins are amazing. Striking good looks, excellent handling, low center of gravity, near 50/50 weight distribution, surprisingly compliant ride, lightweight, 200 HP NA boxer engine, stock shift light, rev matching, RWD, LSD, super comfy sport seats AND "room" for 4 passengers. At ~$25K, what more do you expect??? I'm glad to see that there are ppl in this thread that feel the same as I. I think if this car was released in 2005-2007, people would feel differently. As others have mentioned, this horsepower war the last few years that auto makers are having is just killing it for cars like the twins. Shame

I honestly think most enthusiasts these days just want torque for A-to-B driving and a nice interior. They might be drawn to the Twins for their looks and even enjoy the subjective things that make it great (feedback, balance, etc.), but inevitably, they will want torque and a nice interior. And that's because the majority of driving is A-to-B, where torque and a nice interior go a long way.

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by dem00n

You're really going to complain about a $2000 car?

No. But let's be fair, within the context of your first post, you're lumping a low volume, special edition of the Taurus along with every other Taurus made. Aside from the engine, which I agree was impressive (for the day) and a slightly stiffer suspension, it was still just a Taurus. Besides, it wasn't $2000 when it was sold, new. Adjusted for inflation it was just under $40K in 2014 dollars when it was new. And it had one glaring flaw (aside from being a Taurus). It was FWD. Although that's a subjective point.

[1086]

Originally Posted by Ponwh

See, what you're referring to is innovation.
What im referring to is laziness.

Many people want this engine to be turboed, supercharged, etc, out from the factory. I believe the designer of this car (I believe his name is Tada) just wanted it to be a perfectly balanced platform (stock) and let us modify it the way we want. This way it gives every owner a sense of unique-ness while at the same time being a driver's car that is purchaseable like the 80s-90s era.

boom.

Haha well thank you for elaborating sir. Your statement was a bit general at first, but now I understand the context. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Boomed indeed! lol

[FRSupra]

Originally Posted by chas3wba0

The problem is that there's too much focus on horsepower these days, thanks to the steady decrease of driving "purists" out there and the resulting increase in huge, overpowered cars on the market that all but drive themselves provided the driver knows how to mash on the gas pedal on a more-or-less straight runway.

Thus, niche cars like the 86 will always face complaints about how its power numbers "don't measure up to modern cars". It's tragic, really.

Well spoken.

Originally Posted by bluesman

We've been with them a looong time. My wife's first car was a brand new '68 Corona coupe that her father got her over her objections when she was in college (she wanted a Cutlass). One of her father's closest friends owned a body shop in West Philly and saw a future in Toyota, so he became the first dealer in the area. I bought my FR-S from the same dealership, now operated by his son, daughter and grandkids.


Here's where you need a few more miles on your own odometer to appreciate the context. It's not a '90s feel - my first thought on getting in my FR-S was how much it feels like my 356 Porsches (I've had 6). The firm but comfortable seats, the back-from-the-wheel position with arms comfortably out, the taught suspension, quick steering and firm responsive brakes are all reminiscent of the best sports cars of the '50s and early '60s. Alfa Giulia Sprint 1600s felt like this too.

And just like those cars, ours are not for everybody. Many (most?) people couldn't understand why anyone would pay the asking price for a 60 hp Porsche when you could get a 200+ hp American car for less. But if you could appreciate the balance, the connection between the driver and the road, the simple and direct feel of it as an extension of your own senses and muscles, you didn't have to ask. We struggling students bought them used (in some cases, like my blue-and-rust '57 Normal coupe, very used) - and they were wonderful.

The FR-S / BRZ gives me the same feeling - it's old, yet it's ageless.

Thank you for sharing.