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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


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Old 04-22-2013, 02:25 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by BRZ FTW View Post
If I read Perrin's tech articles correctly, the way companies manipulate the MAF is by using a larger or smaller than stock MAF housing. If OP could measure the MAF housings on both, this will answer your question.
I wouldn't buy one before seeing an actual dyno (no torque virtual dynos) with baseline that also shows the corresponding measured af ratio.

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Old 04-22-2013, 02:29 PM   #268
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It's a big open box with a big ass filter in it and no electronics. It isn't manipulating anything. This is nonsense.
According to perrin something as simple as a drop in filter manipulated af ratios. It was mentioned when people were saying the drop in filters picked up power everywhere while the cai lost some down low but made more up top.

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Old 04-22-2013, 02:30 PM   #269
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It's a big open box with a big ass filter in it and no electronics. It isn't manipulating anything. This is nonsense.
And those points mean nothing. Manipulation just means then MAF reading is different for the same volume of air. The diameter of the MAF location is half the story, by changing anything both before and after the sensor will alter the path the air takes. The MAF only reads a tiny fraction of the air passing through the tube so if the air is behaving differently due to any of the above then the readings will be "manipulated".
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:36 PM   #270
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And those points mean nothing. Manipulation just means then MAF reading is different for the same volume of air. The diameter of the MAF location is half the story, by changing anything both before and after the sensor will alter the path the air takes. The MAF only reads a tiny fraction of the air passing through the tube so if the air is behaving differently due to any of the above then the readings will be "manipulated".
I'm thinking moving the location from an area right after a 90 degree change in direction to one now that's straight through in the same direction might play a big role. Not to mention the way the huge diagonally placed filter might effect things.

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Old 04-22-2013, 03:04 PM   #271
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I swear, you guys will argue over if fire is hot, or water is wet....jeez.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:05 PM   #272
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And those points mean nothing. Manipulation just means then MAF reading is different for the same volume of air. The diameter of the MAF location is half the story, by changing anything both before and after the sensor will alter the path the air takes. The MAF only reads a tiny fraction of the air passing through the tube so if the air is behaving differently due to any of the above then the readings will be "manipulated".
I disagree. That box being large as it is should collect a very stable pack of air before it feeds into the intake tube. There are no obstructions to flow and the air comes through a very generous filter area. Looks like a good design for picking off accurate readings to me. I have a much easier time believing it simply flows more air.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:54 PM   #273
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TEWwild dyno run from 4/20/2013

This graph does have the AF on it at the bottom for the FR-S that dynoed saturday with the TRD intake. I will link mine print out when I get home to show you the AF differences.

Below is a Visconti E85 vs stock dyno from late august. Notice the AF ratio....


http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15273

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Old 04-22-2013, 04:19 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by vtmike View Post
According to perrin something as simple as a drop in filter manipulated af ratios. It was mentioned when people were saying the drop in filters picked up power everywhere while the cai lost some down low but made more up top.

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http://blog.perrinperformance.com/br...design-part-2/
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:50 PM   #275
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Looks like your results are pretty well identical to mine. Just to verify, is that with the TRD in/ex and no tune? (the top graph)
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:00 PM   #276
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Looks like your results are pretty well identical to mine. Just to verify, is that with the TRD in/ex and no tune? (the top graph)

Yep TEWwild dyno run was a TRD intake/exhaust with no tune.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:52 PM   #277
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I'm by no means a tuning god, but judging by the A/F after 6250, could it not stand to be a bit leaner? Or is it that fat to prevent detonation at high rpm? (I may be splitting hairs here, I don't know how accurate you can get an A/F ratio without 1000 hours of tuning and perfectly constant conditions)

If this is true, the car could stand to have even a bit more flow than it has with the TRD in/ex...
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:59 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by Thorpedo View Post
I'm by no means a tuning god, but judging by the A/F after 6250, could it not stand to be a bit leaner? Or is it that fat to prevent detonation at high rpm? (I may be splitting hairs here, I don't know how accurate you can get an A/F ratio without 1000 hours of tuning and perfectly constant conditions)

If this is true, the car could stand to have even a bit more flow than it has with the TRD in/ex...
A good tuner can get the A/F dialed in pretty good. My last car was an Evo IX putting down 370whp on a mustang dyno (tuned by CBRD), and it held ~11.5-11.7 all the way till the rev limit.

That said I have no idea about how the FA20's are tuned. It may be done on purpose.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:28 AM   #279
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I disagree. That box being large as it is should collect a very stable pack of air before it feeds into the intake tube. There are no obstructions to flow and the air comes through a very generous filter area. Looks like a good design for picking off accurate readings to me. I have a much easier time believing it simply flows more air.
You're completely right.... but also completely missed the point. It is a better design but the ECU is designed with MAF readings of the stock location. As vtmike said, as the MAF location has changed then it will read differently per volume of air. In this case it obviously works well, and would have been taken into consideration in the design.

@Thorpedo part of the ECU's running parameters is that it has a target AFR. When tuning on ECUtek you can change/set the target AFRs. So long as you know what number you're going for then it's relatively simple...ish. @zooki.... isn't fire cold!?
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:51 AM   #280
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Just got this installed, initial impressions: makes the engine sound more clean without the sound generator, smooth pull to redline, power seems to be improved midrange.
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