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Old 05-08-2023, 08:05 PM   #29
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This. This is what stones have to do with it. When the wheel flings stones it pushes them down instead of blasting the corner of the quarter off.
Except the deflector in question is in front of the wheel not behind it. From what I've read, it's there for air deflection not stone deflection.
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Old 05-08-2023, 08:25 PM   #30
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Except the deflector in question is in front of the wheel not behind it. From what I've read, it's there for air deflection not stone deflection.
The picture IS in front of the wheel.


Wheels can fling material in all directions not just backwards.
Things can have more than one purpose.
The .00001% impact those floppy rubber things have on aero is laughable.
Of course this is an "enthusiast" forum though so the majority will lean to the performance aspect of every single part while totally ignoring the practical.
Those idiotic moron engineers at Toyota obviously are clueless when calling it a "STONE GUARD"
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Old 05-08-2023, 11:46 PM   #31
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It's aero


https://aia.springeropen.com/article...74-021-00086-7


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One commonly used passive flow-control device is a wheel deflector which is placed upstream of a rotating wheel, causing incoming flow to yaw prior to reaching the wheel and thereby altering the stagnation point of flow on the wheel.

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Old 05-09-2023, 07:22 AM   #32
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The internet says it's aero. And the internet is never wrong.
Besides, wouldn't the rotation of the wheel deflect the stones downward anyway? Even without the "stone guard"?
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Old 05-09-2023, 10:58 AM   #33
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The internet says it's aero. And the internet is never wrong.
Besides, wouldn't the rotation of the wheel deflect the stones downward anyway? Even without the "stone guard"?
Look at the mud and stones in my picture. They can and do get released at all angles. Never had dirt in the top of a wheel well?

I am not saying for one second that it isn't aero related. I am simply saying that it is called a stone guard for a reason.

Not really sure why the fact it can have more than one purpose is in such dispute. There are no absolutes in this piece.
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Old 05-09-2023, 11:01 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
The picture IS in front of the wheel.


Wheels can fling material in all directions not just backwards.
Things can have more than one purpose.
The .00001% impact those floppy rubber things have on aero is laughable.
Of course this is an "enthusiast" forum though so the majority will lean to the performance aspect of every single part while totally ignoring the practical.
Those idiotic moron engineers at Toyota obviously are clueless when calling it a "STONE GUARD"
Engineers and technical writers have two very different skill sets. One knows how stuff works but is really bad at explaining it, the other knows how to explain things but has no idea how stuff works.

What likely happened here is the (English language) tech pubs folks saw this little plastic piece and asked the Japanese engineers through a translator (either machine or human) what the "little plastic bit next to the wheel well" is. The Engineer who responded assumed they were asking about the mud flaps and responded, also through a translator, "it guards against stones". And forever more that part was called a stone guard.

If that sounds silly, you are right, it absolutely is. But it actually happens all the time.

Also, wheels on a vehicle moving forward can only fling things in a forward direction relative to the surface they are on, unless as someone is doing a burnout. It's just often less forward than the speed of the vehicle. Sometimes up. Rarely down. But always forward.
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Old 05-09-2023, 11:39 AM   #35
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And when these things are in the design phase, engineers used CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics). I've never heard of CSD (Computational Stone Dynamics). Has anyone else?
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Old 05-09-2023, 11:47 AM   #36
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Engineers and technical writers have two very different skill sets. One knows how stuff works but is really bad at explaining it, the other knows how to explain things but has no idea how stuff works.

What likely happened here is the (English language) tech pubs folks saw this little plastic piece and asked the Japanese engineers through a translator (either machine or human) what the "little plastic bit next to the wheel well" is. The Engineer who responded assumed they were asking about the mud flaps and responded, also through a translator, "it guards against stones". And forever more that part was called a stone guard.

If that sounds silly, you are right, it absolutely is. But it actually happens all the time.

Also, wheels on a vehicle moving forward can only fling things in a forward direction relative to the surface they are on, unless as someone is doing a burnout. It's just often less forward than the speed of the vehicle. Sometimes up. Rarely down. But always forward.
Or instead of some elaborate series of events it is actually called a stone guard.

Oh this line of shit again. Materials stick and get flung off at all angles as they come loose.
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Old 05-09-2023, 11:49 AM   #37
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And when these things are in the design phase, engineers used CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics). I've never heard of CSD (Computational Stone Dynamics). Has anyone else?
There are other considerations beyond fluid dynamics.

For fuck sake how can you all be so narrow minded.
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Old 05-09-2023, 11:58 AM   #38
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There are other considerations beyond fluid dynamics.

For fuck sake how can you all be so narrow minded.
We're experts.
duh.
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Old 05-09-2023, 12:46 PM   #39
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It can have primary and secondary functions. I have seen it referred by other manufacturers as a "wheel deflector." I know the aftermarket also uses this terminology.
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Old 05-09-2023, 01:08 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphireho View Post
Toyota calls the one on our cars a stone guard.
Looks like it can be called either a stone guard or an air flap.
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Old 05-09-2023, 01:33 PM   #41
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Or instead of some elaborate series of events it is actually called a stone guard.

Oh this line of shit again. Materials stick and get flung off at all angles as they come loose.
I didn't think it was that elaborate, but I'm sure you know better. I'm just an engineer who looks at tech pubs and facepalms a lot.

No part of a rolling wheel or tire is going backwards. If something is stuck to the wheel and then goes flying a part of it's velocity has to be forward relative to the surface it is rolling on. It's simple dynamics.
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Old 05-09-2023, 01:39 PM   #42
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There are other considerations beyond fluid dynamics.

For fuck sake how can you all be so narrow minded.
While I agree with your first statement...

Knowing how something works eliminates all the impossibilities imagined by those that don't know. Arguably understanding physics makes one seem narrow minded to those that prefer to believe in magic and mystery.

Now, if you were to offer an explanation that didn't rely on "it's clear to me and you are all narrow minded for not understanding that" then maybe you could widen our minds.
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