follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Xero Limit
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Forced Induction

Forced Induction Turbo, Supercharger, Methanol, Nitrous


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-28-2013, 11:17 PM   #29
Jackson Racing
Senior Member
 
Jackson Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Drives: JR FR-S
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 149
Thanks: 160
Thanked 394 Times in 107 Posts
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to Jackson Racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by enjoyminutemaid View Post
@Jackson Racing I notice Kraftwerks system uses the same S/C. Can you highlight the differences between your setups? Thanks!
We don’t have any hands-on experience with that kit, so it would be difficult to give a fair analysis. Also, we do not like to get into the battle between different kits. I am sure after release the highlights of each product will be shown.

Here is what I think are some key system differences with the Jackson Racing Rotrex supercharger system vs other kits:

- Single Belt Drive System
With over 20 years of supercharger system design, we understand the importance of a properly designed belt drive. We incorporated the factory automatic belt tensioner for proper belt tensioning and less complication in the system. Also, using a serpentine belt helps us achieve the low NVH (Noise Vibration Harshness) of a factory system and is within Rotrex specifications.

We have 15,000+ testing miles with our belt drive system and it has been rock solid. No belt dusting, no slipping and no breaking. We feel that if you were not concerned about the stock belt drive, our design should be at the same level. This is one of the many reasons Jackson Racing works with OEMs around the globe.

- MAF Calibration and Location
We know this is not a big deal for MAP tuned TIY guys, but a proper MAF calibration is important for drivability and emissions. We have a lot of experience with MAFs and have passed the stringent AT-PZEV CARB standard on a MAF calibrated vehicle. Our design ensures proper air temperature and MAF readings are seen by the ECU, so a precise calibration can be attained. The result is smooth low speed drivability, and great mid range/top end power.

Our product testing is not just for the hardware, but the calibration as well. This includes trips through the Rocky Mountains, the California desert, and abuse at the track. Our system has been tracked using the same calibration we ship and has passed all of our track tests… And lots of vehicles!

- Customer Service and Support
We work very hard on our build sheets and instructions to ensure our customers have no issues with our product installations. This is sometimes an overlooked portion of an installation. Even so, sometimes help is needed and that is the difference with us. We try to be available for our customers at all times, and this includes access to our tech support email. If you email Tech Support on a Saturday night with an installation/product question, someone will be able to get back to you. This sounds like a lot of work, but luckily our tech line mostly gets emails thanking us for the ease of installation!

Jackson Racing has a long history of producing high quality supercharger systems. With over 8 years of Rotrex experience and 30 years of Forced Induction experience, we have the knowledge and ability to produce systems that will sell for many years to come. We have customers that are purchasing new products based off of their previous product experience and interactions with Jackson Racing staff.

-Oscar Jr.
Jackson Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Jackson Racing For This Useful Post:
airmanmurphy02 (10-29-2013), BrianBlueBRZ (08-15-2014), Calum (10-29-2013), CSG Mike (10-29-2013), enjoyminutemaid (10-29-2013), OjiGeorge (12-31-2013), ramiram1984 (10-29-2013), sklimo (01-03-2014)
Old 10-28-2013, 11:23 PM   #30
Jackson Racing
Senior Member
 
Jackson Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Drives: JR FR-S
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 149
Thanks: 160
Thanked 394 Times in 107 Posts
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to Jackson Racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamlet View Post
Going to try to get to the Irvine meet this Tues. Hope to see you there Oscar. Looking forward to installing this kit as soon as it gets delivered (already preordered).

Can you guys expedite getting the install manual onto your website so my install shop can plan ahead?
I'm not sure we will be able to make it out to the Irvine meet this week with the SEMA crunch and another track event we are attending at the end of SEMA week.

Once our instructions are ready for public release they will be posted on JacksonRacing.com.

-Oscar Jr.
Jackson Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 11:36 PM   #31
Jackson Racing
Senior Member
 
Jackson Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Drives: JR FR-S
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 149
Thanks: 160
Thanked 394 Times in 107 Posts
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to Jackson Racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by raytrix View Post
What size pulley will be supplied with the kit initially and what other sizes will be offered as a optional replacement for future increased power needs?
A 110mm supercharger pulley is supplied.
We do not have any boost upgrade pulley information available at the current time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r View Post
Are there any videos of testing, dyno, tracking...etc?
Unfortunately, we do not have video as we have been focused on product development. We do have pictures of the car on track.
Maybe at our next event I can pull the GoPros out and have some fun!

-Oscar Jr.
Jackson Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2013, 12:39 AM   #32
digital_assassin
Senior Member
 
digital_assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Drives: 2013 FR-S Matte Orange
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,017
Thanks: 489
Thanked 937 Times in 507 Posts
Mentioned: 165 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramiram1984 View Post
Yes sir. HE sure is. Oscar Jr. was happy when I told him bob will be tuning it that way.
I'm open for when you want to go. Thing is, not exactly sure(day) when mine will arrive.

But it also depends on bob's availability.
I'm installing at my place in Portland and then trailering her up there. Once the kits start shipping we'll have to touch base. I'm sure Bob will be all over this. Nothing like back to back comparisons. You have upgraded exhaust? I have the Nameless 2.5" header back and thats it since all other stuff comes off for the KW kit.
digital_assassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2013, 09:16 AM   #33
ramiram1984
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Drives: 2016 STi DGM
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 1,607
Thanks: 742
Thanked 516 Times in 334 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by digital_assassin View Post
I'm installing at my place in Portland and then trailering her up there. Once the kits start shipping we'll have to touch base. I'm sure Bob will be all over this. Nothing like back to back comparisons. You have upgraded exhaust? I have the Nameless 2.5" header back and thats it since all other stuff comes off for the KW kit.
Yes sir. It'd be cool to watch you install your kit.
Also, i have the 2.5 Perrin header-back exhaust (motive front pipe) and HKS EL headers.
__________________
-2014 SSM BRZ MT
ramiram1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2013, 09:20 AM   #34
ATL BRZ
Driving Coach
 
ATL BRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: BRZ
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 3,650
Thanks: 3,688
Thanked 4,081 Times in 1,697 Posts
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Racing View Post
Unfortunately, we do not have video as we have been focused on product development. We do have pictures of the car on track.
Maybe at our next event I can pull the GoPros out and have some fun!

-Oscar Jr.
You had GoPros but chose not to use them? How hard is it to stick one on the car and record a session or two? IMO some video of the kit in action would help greatly to develop potential customers for this product!

Disappointing to be this close to release and only have one detailed photo of the kit installed for potential customers to see. Dyno videos, track footage, street pulls, whatever you can get to supplement would definitely help your marketing game in this competitive aftermarket.
__________________
ATL BRZ is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ATL BRZ For This Useful Post:
OICU812 (11-05-2013), SnapOv3st3r (10-29-2013), thebear21 (11-21-2013)
Old 10-29-2013, 10:51 AM   #35
SnapOv3st3r
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Drives: 400whp Scion tC
Location: TN
Posts: 1,310
Thanks: 676
Thanked 323 Times in 213 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATL BRZ View Post
You had GoPros but chose not to use them? How hard is it to stick one on the car and record a session or two? IMO some video of the kit in action would help greatly to develop potential customers for this product!

Disappointing to be this close to release and only have one detailed photo of the kit installed for potential customers to see. Dyno videos, track footage, street pulls, whatever you can get to supplement would definitely help your marketing game in this competitive aftermarket.

I would have even been happy with a camera phone video...
SnapOv3st3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2013, 06:38 PM   #36
Dezoris
Senior Member
 
Dezoris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: FR-S
Location: IL
Posts: 2,848
Thanks: 516
Thanked 2,925 Times in 1,086 Posts
Mentioned: 151 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Oscar, I have been doing 100s of hours of video in garage and track on the FRS. Worked with so many vendors now and one thing I can tell you with this car is people almost require photos and video on products for the FRS/BRZ, namely for forced induction. It maybe the age group. But definitely consider it.

I was waiting for this kit, when I heard rumors it looks impressive. I did my first build with Vortech and this will likely be my second setup now.
Dezoris is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dezoris For This Useful Post:
OICU812 (11-05-2013)
Old 10-29-2013, 07:47 PM   #37
digital_assassin
Senior Member
 
digital_assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Drives: 2013 FR-S Matte Orange
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,017
Thanks: 489
Thanked 937 Times in 507 Posts
Mentioned: 165 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vgi View Post
They did, see post #12 on p.1 of this thread. Just not the whole kit but the mounting bracket.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Racing View Post
The short answer:
No, the Jackson Racing supercharger bracket as it ships in this system will not accept a C38 supercharger unit.

Now this does not mean the rest of the components in the system cannot accept the C38. We plan to have a C38 upgrade in the future for consumers that want to be on that high level. There are some other engine upgrades required when you go to a C38 besides the head unit, so we think the least of your worries when you go that route is the aluminum supercharger bracket.

-Oscar Jr.
I asked the question again because I think the whole kit is possibly a throwaway if you want to do anything more than a pulley upgrade, that's why I'm looking for an answer. JR states just the bracket will be required but I ended up digging back through a thread and found the intercooler picture and it's an 8 row which may be too small to be effective for the C38, maybe someone that understands this process better can elaborate because I'm no expert by any means. I found another picture on the that makes it look like the throttle body intake tube is already resting on the C30 unit which may rule that part out as well.

It's good to know how much of the system can carry over if you want to upgrade to the larger blower down the road. Modding cars is expensive and it really sucks when you think the path you've chosen will support your future needs only to find out you were wrong and now have to spend money on parts you already thought would work.

Here's the picture of the intercooler if found in NoppyPops thread.


Here's the angle of the engine bay where it looks like the inlet hose is resting on top of the C38. Could be camera angles .


I would love to see some more defining pictures of the engine bay. In base form both kits are not that much different. I think the upgrade path for the two is the big division point but I could be wrong.
digital_assassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 04:26 PM   #38
Jackson Racing
Senior Member
 
Jackson Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Drives: JR FR-S
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 149
Thanks: 160
Thanked 394 Times in 107 Posts
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to Jackson Racing
@digital_assassin -

I think we are getting lost in the maybes. I simply stated the supercharger bracket cannot accept a C38 and that in a C38 upgrade on the FA20, that would be the least of your worries.

Now the only reason a C38 should be considered on the FA20 engine is if you want to run 15psi or more. If you are looking for boost up to 14psi, then the Jackson Racing system as it ships has the capability to produce the power levels you are looking for with a simple pulley change. Our standard system ships at 9psi and we will have pulley upgrades up to the supercharger limit.

We know there is a part of the market looking for big numbers. We have worked with many race teams to develop high horsepower Rotrex cars on a proper budget. But that leads us back to the cost of modifications. The list of requirements for a reliable high HP package gets longer and the price tag gets larger with each horsepower level. The C38 units alone are not cheap. We already know from many engine builders and even threads on this forum that there are weaknesses in this engine (i.e. connecting rods, etc).

When we set out to design the Jackson Racing system, we talked with new and future FT86 owners around the country/world. Overwhelmingly, the requests were for:
• Reliable
• Street Legal
• Quiet
• Track Capable
• Broad Power

With this information, we set out to design a system that fits these market requirements and we think we have hit every bullet point (except one that we are working on right now. )


Regarding Intercooler Design-

It is not as simple as “bigger is better” with intercoolers, especially with Rotrex units. Intercooler efficiency is dependent on many factors. Internal core design, core thickness, core length, exposure to air, etc. all play important roles in intercooler efficiency.

Building a bigger intercooler with some of the core blocked off by the bumper is a waste:

• The larger core will have more pressure drop, thus requiring you to run your compressor (turbocharger or supercharger) harder to reach the same boost levels. Now that you are running the unit harder, temperatures will go up. As you can see, this is a slippery slope. Also, restrictive core designs can hurt intercooler efficiency resulting in more pressure drop.

• Leading intercooler designers state that even doubling the size of an intercooler will only add maybe 5% efficiency, but will definitely add more cost, weight, and pressure drop.

• It is important that ambient air actually goes across the core. If the intercooler is too tall and not receiving air across the core, then it is not doing anything.

Ultimately, the air flow and temperature drop on the exit of the intercooler are the important data points here. We still have headroom for more boost and have low intake air temperatures, proving our intercooler has been properly designed for the package.
Jackson Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to Jackson Racing For This Useful Post:
ATL BRZ (10-30-2013), Calum (10-30-2013), CSG David (10-31-2013), CSG Mike (10-30-2013), digital_assassin (10-30-2013), flippy (08-22-2014), Jetscape (11-06-2013), MightyMeeple (11-06-2013), NoppyNop (10-30-2013), OICU812 (10-30-2013), Symbiont (06-12-2014), tonylop33 (10-30-2013), Touge Factory (11-06-2013), Venator (02-13-2014)
Old 10-30-2013, 05:12 PM   #39
Calum
That Guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: 2013 asphalt FRS MT
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 4,707
Thanks: 4,954
Thanked 2,808 Times in 1,460 Posts
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Racing View Post
@digital_assassin -

I think we are getting lost in the maybes. I simply stated the supercharger bracket cannot accept a C38 and that in a C38 upgrade on the FA20, that would be the least of your worries.

Now the only reason a C38 should be considered on the FA20 engine is if you want to run 15psi or more. If you are looking for boost up to 14psi, then the Jackson Racing system as it ships has the capability to produce the power levels you are looking for with a simple pulley change. Our standard system ships at 9psi and we will have pulley upgrades up to the supercharger limit.

We know there is a part of the market looking for big numbers. We have worked with many race teams to develop high horsepower Rotrex cars on a proper budget. But that leads us back to the cost of modifications. The list of requirements for a reliable high HP package gets longer and the price tag gets larger with each horsepower level. The C38 units alone are not cheap. We already know from many engine builders and even threads on this forum that there are weaknesses in this engine (i.e. connecting rods, etc).

When we set out to design the Jackson Racing system, we talked with new and future FT86 owners around the country/world. Overwhelmingly, the requests were for:
• Reliable
• Street Legal
• Quiet
• Track Capable
• Broad Power

With this information, we set out to design a system that fits these market requirements and we think we have hit every bullet point (except one that we are working on right now. )


Regarding Intercooler Design-

It is not as simple as “bigger is better” with intercoolers, especially with Rotrex units. Intercooler efficiency is dependent on many factors. Internal core design, core thickness, core length, exposure to air, etc. all play important roles in intercooler efficiency.

Building a bigger intercooler with some of the core blocked off by the bumper is a waste:

• The larger core will have more pressure drop, thus requiring you to run your compressor (turbocharger or supercharger) harder to reach the same boost levels. Now that you are running the unit harder, temperatures will go up. As you can see, this is a slippery slope. Also, restrictive core designs can hurt intercooler efficiency resulting in more pressure drop.

• Leading intercooler designers state that even doubling the size of an intercooler will only add maybe 5% efficiency, but will definitely add more cost, weight, and pressure drop.

• It is important that ambient air actually goes across the core. If the intercooler is too tall and not receiving air across the core, then it is not doing anything.

Ultimately, the air flow and temperature drop on the exit of the intercooler are the important data points here. We still have headroom for more boost and have low intake air temperatures, proving our intercooler has been properly designed for the package.
But... What about 14.5 psi?!!

Seriously, I'm very happy to see there is that much head room! Thank you for the informative post.

Last edited by Calum; 10-30-2013 at 05:23 PM.
Calum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 05:19 PM   #40
OrbitalEllipses
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: Attitude
Location: MD
Posts: 10,046
Thanks: 884
Thanked 4,887 Times in 2,901 Posts
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
How much torques?
OrbitalEllipses is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to OrbitalEllipses For This Useful Post:
Carwhisperer (11-04-2013)
Old 11-04-2013, 08:49 PM   #41
Jackson Racing
Senior Member
 
Jackson Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Drives: JR FR-S
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 149
Thanks: 160
Thanked 394 Times in 107 Posts
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to Jackson Racing
CARB Update

Good news:

We are happy to report as of last week we have passed all the emissions lab tests with the Jackson Racing system and are now waiting for our official signed Executive Order to arrive!

-Oscar Jr.
Jackson Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Jackson Racing For This Useful Post:
airmanmurphy02 (11-05-2013), akuhei (11-04-2013), CSG David (11-05-2013), CSG Mike (11-05-2013), flippy (08-22-2014), Godzilla35 (11-13-2013), hamlet (11-04-2013), jamesm (11-04-2013), NoppyNop (11-05-2013), SirBrass (11-21-2013), Sonolin (11-05-2013), TemeCal (11-04-2013), tonylop33 (11-04-2013)
Old 11-04-2013, 09:29 PM   #42
jamesm
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: 2013 FR-S
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 2,929
Thanks: 1,166
Thanked 2,290 Times in 1,180 Posts
Mentioned: 313 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
if i ever have to move to california, right after i quit crying i'm going to buy one of these kits.
jamesm is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jamesm For This Useful Post:
CSG Mike (11-05-2013), ramiram1984 (11-05-2013)
 
Reply

Tags
jackson racing, jrsc, rotrex, supercharger, track

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jackson Racing Supercharger Press Release and Info CounterSpace Garage Forced Induction 110 01-03-2017 09:04 PM
Kraftwerks Rotrex Supercharger Discussion nelsmar Forced Induction 695 12-12-2014 10:59 PM
Jackson Racing supercharger NoppyNop Forced Induction 241 06-26-2014 03:05 PM
HKS GT Supercharger (Rotrex) in development! madfast Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 206 12-14-2012 03:28 PM
Jackson Racing FR-S Unleashed Photos, Videos, Wallpapers, Gallery Forum 3 11-18-2012 02:29 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.