Clutch needs adjustment?

[drz400dude]

Lately I've been noticing after sitting at a stop light, it doesn't want to go into first gear easily. I can have the clutch pedal pushed all the way to the floor and it still doesn't want to go. I either have to blip the gas pedal a little, and it will slide right in, or sometimes putting it in second, then dropping to first works. I've also noticed it doesn't come out of gear smoothly either.

I have the TRD short throw shift kit installed, and have had it in about 10-15k miles now. I've tried pulling the shift boot and lubing all the linkages between the shifter and the trans, but it didn't seem to help any.

It seems like even with the pedal fully depressed, the clutch isn't disengaging fully. Could this be fixed by adjusting the pedal (http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8040)?

Edit:

I should also point out that I have an ACT clutch w/ lightweight flywheel. Had this set up in about 6-7K miles now. I'm not sure how long it takes to fully break in an aftermarket clutch with just normal/daily driving on the highway (only 2 stop lights on my 30 mile commute to work)?

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by drz400dude

Lately I've been noticing after sitting at a stop light, it doesn't want to go into first gear easily. I can have the clutch pedal pushed all the way to the floor and it still doesn't want to go. I either have to blip the gas pedal a little, and it will slide right in, or sometimes putting it in second, then dropping to first works. I've also noticed it doesn't come out of gear smoothly either.

I have the TRD short throw shift kit installed, and have had it in about 10-15k miles now. I've tried pulling the shift boot and lubing all the linkages between the shifter and the trans, but it didn't seem to help any.

It seems like even with the pedal fully depressed, the clutch isn't disengaging fully. Could this be fixed by adjusting the pedal (http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8040)?

The short shifter kit may not be helping the situation.-

First off I'd suggest you check the fluid in the clutch reservoir and top off if necessary.

If that don't fix it, you may consider bleeding the clutch master cylinder.


humfrz

[Ultramaroon]

The clutch is self-adjusting. Like humfrz says, check fluid first.

With that out of the way, how far off of the floor before the clutch makes contact?

If the clutch is dragging even a tiny bit, it will be tough or impossible to get into any gear from neutral. Is this the case?

[drz400dude]

Originally Posted by humfrz

The short shifter kit may not be helping the situation.-

First off I'd suggest you check the fluid in the clutch reservoir and top off if necessary.

If that don't fix it, you may consider bleeding the clutch master cylinder.


humfrz

The reservoir is about 3/4 full. It looks a little nasty, so I may try flushing it with fresh fluid.

I live by myself, and as much as I've tried, my pup isn't much help with wrenching on the car. Is it possible to bleed by yourself? I've bled brakes by pumping the pedal and then putting a heavy brick on the pedal to keep pressure while I crack the bleeder

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

The clutch is self-adjusting. Like humfrz says, check fluid first.

With that out of the way, how far off of the floor before the clutch makes contact?

If the clutch is dragging even a tiny bit, it will be tough or impossible to get into any gear from neutral. Is this the case?

Honestly I've never noticed how far the travel is before the clutch starts to engage. I'll check it tomorrow.

It seems like when I first start driving and everything is cold, everything works smoothly and goes in and out of gear fine. It's only when it gets warmed up that it becomes an issue. Once warm, it is very tough to get into gear without revving slightly (up to about 1100-1200).

Why would the clutch start dragging? It has only been in like I said about 6-7k miles. This is my first manual car so I'm not too familiar with manual trans problems.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by drz400dude

Why would the clutch start dragging? It has only been in like I said about 6-7k miles. This is my first manual car so I'm not too familiar with manual trans problems.

Let's not jump to conclusions. First just decide if it's dragging at all. So far, it doesn't sound like it is.

[humfrz]

This reference should help with bleeding the clutch system.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67638

I doubt you can train your pup to help, but, any ol neighbor should be able to help. -


humfrz

[dhuang]

I had an ACT SB7-HDSS kit in my FR-S. It would perform fine when cold, but once I've been driving the car for a bit, I would get locked out of 1st gear. I bled the fluid, swapped the slave, but never solved the issue before moving on to a '17 BRZ.

The issue started cropping up after 6k miles as well -- could be a QC problem with the ACT kits.

[Trueweltall]

Could also be a fatigued clutch fork which is why you had problems with the ACT kit.

[Ultramaroon]

Hmmm... It's a short trip to broken from fatigued.

[dhuang]

Originally Posted by Trueweltall

Could also be a fatigued clutch fork which is why you had problems with the ACT kit.

I installed a Verus billet clutch fork while putting in the clutch and it certainly was over-engineered to handle the ACT pressure plate -- it is something else.

[EndlessAzure]

Originally Posted by drz400dude

Lately I've been noticing after sitting at a stop light, it doesn't want to go into first gear easily. I can have the clutch pedal pushed all the way to the floor and it still doesn't want to go. I either have to blip the gas pedal a little, and it will slide right in, or sometimes putting it in second, then dropping to first works. I've also noticed it doesn't come out of gear smoothly either.

I have the TRD short throw shift kit installed, and have had it in about 10-15k miles now. I've tried pulling the shift boot and lubing all the linkages between the shifter and the trans, but it didn't seem to help any.

It seems like even with the pedal fully depressed, the clutch isn't disengaging fully. Could this be fixed by adjusting the pedal (http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8040)?

Edit:

I should also point out that I have an ACT clutch w/ lightweight flywheel. Had this set up in about 6-7K miles now. I'm not sure how long it takes to fully break in an aftermarket clutch with just normal/daily driving on the highway (only 2 stop lights on my 30 mile commute to work)?

Originally Posted by dhuang

I installed a Verus billet clutch fork while putting in the clutch and it certainly was over-engineered to handle the ACT pressure plate -- it is something else.

I've had the same clutch drag issues with my ACT clutch /w upgraded fork and everything. Started occurring about 4 months in ~10k miles. I broke it in for over 1k miles. Only happened when the clutch was warmed up. My personal experience/diagnostic: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128871

I pulled it out and sent it for QC at ACT HQ; they told me nothing was wrong. Take that for what it's worth.

I just run my stock clutch again, no problems since.

[RallySTI]

The clutch in the 86 does NOT self adjust. It has a hydraulic actuation system but this does not mean it self adjusts.

There are some clutches for other vehicles that are self adjusting however this is not the case with our cars. A self adjusting clutch has a ratcheting mechanism in the pressure plate assembly that changes as the clutch disc wears so that the diaphragm spring height remains the same over the life of the clutch. These are not ideal for sports cars and are commonly used where a concentric slave cylinder is used rather than the conventional bearing and fork.

On our cars you can make adjustments (at the threaded rod for the master cylinder) that will affect the fluid movement and in turn affect the amount of travel the clutch diaphragm spring receives. Too little of travel at the diaphragm spring and the pressure plate will not lift enough to allow full disengagement. Too much travel and the diaphragm spring can contact the clutch disc damper.

Here is a video I made explaining how the clutch pedal adjustment affects the clutch fork movement. If you know the lever ratio of the fork you can have an idea of how far the slave cylinder needs to extend to move the fork to actuate the clutch fully.

Since the ACT pressure plate assembly design is different that than the OE and EXEDY clutches I would assume the lever ratio of the diaphragm spring is different. This means the same travel that worked for the OE clutch may not work for the ACT clutch. This is why you need to check and make adjustments once the clutch is installed and every so often as the disc wears.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by RallySTI

The clutch in the 86 does NOT self adjust. It has a hydraulic actuation system but this does not mean it self adjusts.

For the benefit of all readers, please edit or retract this.


The clutch operating mechanism is self-adjusting. Please read the related technical information which I have linked in my signature. This is a critical point to understand as improper adjustment of the linkage between pedal and master cylinder can block the feature. At best this causes accelerated wear of the TOB. At worst, it will prevent full engagement of the clutch.


The design is at least forty years old. There's no magic here.

[RallySTI]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

For the benefit of all readers, please edit or retract this.


The clutch operating mechanism is self-adjusting. Please read the related technical information which I have linked in my signature. This is a critical point to understand as improper adjustment of the linkage between pedal and master cylinder can block the feature. At best this causes accelerated wear of the TOB. At worst, it will prevent full engagement of the clutch.


The design is at least forty years old. There's no magic here.

I think we are on the same page after re reading your response. Can you link the part or document that says the hydraulic system self adjusts?

The factory service manual is good for the OE clutch, but when the clutch design is different than the OE clutch the factory service specs, free play for this case, may not work and a small adjustment may be needed. You are correct when saying that an improper adjustment will cause premature bearing wear or disengagement issues.

For the OE and stage 1/2 pressure plate assemblies the correct stroke at the diaphragm spring is 7.5-8.5 mm. When these are tested we want to see 1.0mm of pressure plate lift at 7.5mm of diaphragm stroke, this is one criteria I check when testing the function of the pressure plate assembly. This stroking distance is only valid for the EXEDY clutches as the lever ratio of the diaphragm spring dictates the amount of stroke needed to lift the pressure plate.

Other brands may change the pivot ring location, use a different stamping (clutch cover) or a different diaphragm spring and these change the actual lever ratio.

So using a different brand clutch you will need to adjust the clutch pedal assembly to ensure the clutch assembly will function as it is suppose to. This is because of design and stack height differences.

I am curious on what info you have that shows that the clutch actuation system self adjusts.