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Forced Induction Turbo, Supercharger, Methanol, Nitrous


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Old 08-24-2022, 07:03 PM   #11201
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I got the right bearings installed and the motor runs like new! I ran it with the wheel attached and it seems to run fine. Next step is reinstall it in the housing, attach it to the intake and see what boost I get. I'll do that next time I'm feeling lucky. Wish me luck.
For anyone who's bearings are worn out, these are what I used:
Front bearing: 57155K496, 8x14x3.5mm flanged with 15.6x0.8 flange good for 50,000 rpm from McMaster-Carr.
Rear bearing: SMR626C-YZZ NB2, 6x19x6 ceramic bearing good for 60,000 rpm from Boca Bearings.

This is good input. keep us posted.
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Old 08-25-2022, 10:49 AM   #11202
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Bad news.
I can't use the damaged wheel. I put it back together and noticed 3 of the inducer vanes are damaged and create a large gap to the housing on the intake of the compressor. I'm sure it would leak at least a couple psi of boost. Not to mention surging and all sorts of bad things.
So I'm trying to find a replacement wheel but I'm losing hope. The exducer is 98mm and inducer is 65mm. That's huge in the turbo world. And it has to fit the housing perfectly. The only things I found that are even close is a Turbonectrics T-70 or maybe a Mitsubishi TD05/TD06. And if I went that route I think I would have to get the housing and the wheel and adapt it to the motor.
Or maybe have the original wheel 3d printed.

To make matters worse, the wheel is now stuck to the motor shaft. Whenever I tested the motor I had the wheel loosely fitted. There's a countersunk screw that holds the wheel to the shaft but it appears that the bore of the wheel is tapered. The torque of the motor pulled the wheel down
and closed the gap between the wheel and the mounting plate. The gap where my puller used to fit. This is turning into a major learning experience.
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Old 08-29-2022, 03:59 PM   #11203
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The more I research this thing, the more I'm impressed by it. I would really like to know the story of it's demise. As far as I can tell, virtually every part of this thing is custom made. It had to have taken years of R&D to perfect, and then it just disappeared.

I'm done trying to find a replacement compressor wheel. It doesn't exist. It looks like the compressor housing is a generic Chinese cast part that has been custom machined to fit the custom designed compressor wheel. The housing has "49179 520 0" cast into it. I've seen a few that look exactly the same on line but the dimensions are different. The compressor wheel is much larger than anything available. 98mm exducer and 65mm inducer, huge.

So now I'm researching 3D printing. I just need to learn how to make a STL file model of the wheel. I used to do Autocad at work, but it's been a while. Let's see if I can learn new tricks. Once I make the file I can try printing it in different materials and see what happens.

I got the wheel unstuck from the shaft. What a bitch! I let it soak in PB Blaster for a few days, then modified my puller to fit it but it wouldn't move.
Then I tried running the motor in reverse hoping it would unscrew. I even put a bucket over it in case it flew off like a flying saucer. It didn't. So I put the puller back on it and cranked like a mofo. Still wouldn't move. Pounded it with a hammer. Nothing. Finally pounding some chisels under did it. It's a little more bent up than it was, but I know how it's supposed to look.
You can see how it got galled to the shaft.
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Old 08-29-2022, 06:14 PM   #11204
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Isn't there someone on this forum who was involved with the development of these things?
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Old 09-01-2022, 11:34 AM   #11205
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Isn't there someone on this forum who was involved with the development of these things?
There WAS. but that was a long time ago. I think you and me may be the only ones left.

So, here's my latest plan...
A found a local place who can 3d scan the wheel and create a 3d model. I thought about drawing the wheel myself. I used to use Autocad at work years ago but the complexity and compound curves would be really hard to draw. I would have to modify the scanned model to correct the deformities caused by the damage. Then print it in plastic to check the fit and correct any problems.
Next step would be to create the final product in aluminum. I could either have it machined or cast whatever is cheaper
I'm trying to keep the cost below what it would cost to buy an entire new system. If such a thing existed.

But, if my plan works out, I'll have the model to create a new wheel for the next guy who's bearings fail.
Because it WILL happen.
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Old 09-01-2022, 05:30 PM   #11206
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There are a few of us still around, but fenton and rob were pretty hush hush about the production details until what seemed like a copyright or some legal issue caused a halt production (not sure what as they were secretive about that too).

I would have to look back, but it wasn't too long ago that someone's controller seemed to die, so as a worst case scenario, WNDSRFR could look into buying their old compressor for the parts if they still have it.
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Old 09-01-2022, 06:53 PM   #11207
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There WAS. but that was a long time ago. I think you and me may be the only ones left.

So, here's my latest plan...
A found a local place who can 3d scan the wheel and create a 3d model. I thought about drawing the wheel myself. I used to use Autocad at work years ago but the complexity and compound curves would be really hard to draw. I would have to modify the scanned model to correct the deformities caused by the damage. Then print it in plastic to check the fit and correct any problems.
Next step would be to create the final product in aluminum. I could either have it machined or cast whatever is cheaper
I'm trying to keep the cost below what it would cost to buy an entire new system. If such a thing existed.

But, if my plan works out, I'll have the model to create a new wheel for the next guy who's bearings fail.
Because it WILL happen.
Well if I recall that you got a lot of mileage out of yours, I'll try to breath easier. I don't use mine often, in fact sometimes just to see if it still works. I'm a spirited, aggressive driver, but find that mine with a Borla header, Borla axle back, free-flow cat front pipe and E85, is a lot faster than stock and strong enough in mid range that I only occasionally go for boost. The ESC is just a nice addition and well worth the time and cost. I worry about the ESC, but my biggest fear is not being able to get E85.
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Old 09-02-2022, 04:55 PM   #11208
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Well if I recall that you got a lot of mileage out of yours, I'll try to breath easier. I don't use mine often, in fact sometimes just to see if it still works. I'm a spirited, aggressive driver, but find that mine with a Borla header, Borla axle back, free-flow cat front pipe and E85, is a lot faster than stock and strong enough in mid range that I only occasionally go for boost. The ESC is just a nice addition and well worth the time and cost. I worry about the ESC, but my biggest fear is not being able to get E85.
years yes, mileage not sure. I have less than 60k miles on my car since I got the phantom.. or the car. Daily driver, but I work less than 5 miles from my house and don't travel much. Either way I have only changed out the batteries once, no phantom maintenance other than that. I used to be more spirited than I am now, and agree that with my other mods I don't really activate it much. I just figured that every second my engine is running is causing the compressor wheel to free spin with the intake air so eventually the bearings will need to be changed as basic maintenance. It sucks for him but I appreciate WNDSRFR doing the grunt work and finding replacement parts, assuming all versions of the phantom use the same ones. I know one of the latest versions had a lighter compressor wheel, but don't know if any of the other specs changed.

I am not an engineer, but do work in electronics, and If I wanted to risk disassembling my controller (which I don't), It doesn't "seem" like it would be too difficult to reverse engineer. The snail and wheel aside, the motor has to be an off the shelf part. Other than that, the box has a ESC, likely a customized off the shelf part, a 24v battery charger, and some relays. I may be underestimating it, I just don't think that for such a limited production run that custom PCBs were designed, produced, and populated by hand. I'm sure if you got a phantom to a drone or brushless motor enthusiast they could identify exactly what specs it uses and find current off the shelf parts for replacement or replication. It could just be wishful thinking on my part as the adjusted price of the phantom with batteries, and now the torqamp are expensive enough to compare with some traditional FI applications.
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Old 09-03-2022, 07:45 AM   #11209
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If you're using it so infrequently, I wouldn't worry about your bearings yet. I used to commute 50 miles to work every day on I-95 and would engage it at least 10 times a day. At least. I've changed batteries about 7 times.
As far as free spinning goes..
I don't understand how that works. I removed my switch from the gas petal and engage it by hand while the motor is clamped in a vice. It seems like it is either off or on. It's supposed to have the 2 stage switch but it doesn't seem to work. There's a pot on the switch, I don't know what it's for. I'll try adjusting it today to see if it does anything.
The only connection the controller has to the car is to the alternator via the batteries. I thought I had the latest version. Maybe not.
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Old 09-03-2022, 08:50 AM   #11210
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If you're using it so infrequently, I wouldn't worry about your bearings yet. I used to commute 50 miles to work every day on I-95 and would engage it at least 10 times a day. At least. I've changed batteries about 7 times.
As far as free spinning goes..
I don't understand how that works. I removed my switch from the gas petal and engage it by hand while the motor is clamped in a vice. It seems like it is either off or on. It's supposed to have the 2 stage switch but it doesn't seem to work. There's a pot on the switch, I don't know what it's for. I'll try adjusting it today to see if it does anything.
The only connection the controller has to the car is to the alternator via the batteries. I thought I had the latest version. Maybe not.
Well it's good to know it's robust enough to last this long with that type of duty cycle. For the free spinning I am referring to the engine pulling air through the compressor without the phantom motor being engaged while the engine is running say at idle or cruising speed. That air flow should cause the wheel to spin as the engine pulls the air through the intake. I realize that this puts much less stress on the bearings than being loaded with boost, but friction is friction so I just assume they will wear out eventually, but have no idea how long that would take.

as for your two stage switch I can't say. I believe the version with the two stage switch is one of if not the newest version but it's been a long time and I only have the 1.0 or 1.5? I think. Mine has a single trigger switch with a vacuum sensor in the control box and a vacuum line going to a nipple on the metal pipe between the intake and compressor that lightly activates the phantom whenever it senses a strong vacuum. For example when the engine is demanding more air than can easily flow through the compressor wheel, it spins up the compressor just enough create a positive pressure to cancel out the vacuum caused by the restriction, then it shuts back off.
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Old 09-03-2022, 09:52 AM   #11211
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I don't understand what you're saying about the vacuum line. Is it attached to the controller? The only things going to or coming from my controller are: 3 large wires going to the motor, 2 medium wires from the batteries, 2 large wires to the batteries, and a cable going to the switch and meter. So, when you say the compressor wheel spins, is it driven by the motor or just vacuum alone?
Also, I tried adjusting to pot on the switch and it doesn't seem to do anything noticeable. But I did notice that I do have speed control by how much pressure I put on the switch. I also noticed that running the motor with no load for a couple seconds, it doesn't even get warm. So that's good.
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Old 09-03-2022, 11:08 AM   #11212
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I've been reading though this post looking for info on the drag reduction and discovered a few things. The drag reduction was discontinued when the two stage switch was introduced. Also I discovered that I received my latest (current) kit on 01/06/15. So this thing ran for 7 1/2 years before a failure. Not bad.
But I still don't know what that screw on the switch is for.
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Old 09-03-2022, 01:01 PM   #11213
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I have version 2.5 and there is no vacuum tube from the compressor. Mine definitely has the two-position throttle switch, and while I at first noticed the sequential boost, I don't now. That could just be my activating the throttle faster. It's my understanding that the Ver 3s had sequential activation, which would likely involve a rheostat. That could mean you have a ver 3.

Someone wrote that the step-up from 2-5 lbs was to eliminate strain on the shaft from going from full stop to full speed all at once.

All the design elements of the system are well known, so I suspect someone with sufficient skills could replicate it using now available parts, though I don't know if it would be cost effective now. Maybe the Torqamp could be part of the system if someone could design a controller. All the other elements would seem to be simple. I see Torqamps advertised at $2500, and there's a mini version but I didn't see a price. They're 48 volts and I don't know if that would present any problems integrating with our 12-volt systems. The Torqamp site indicates cars are running them now with the batteries in the trunk, but I didn't see any examples in my brief visit. Could be they use a button on the steering wheel like the NOX guys do.

The system appeals to me because 5 lbs is all I would want to put in these engines. that and the cheap price and easy installation. I still think there would be a market for them if replacement parts were available. unless there's a patent issue or something like that.
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Old 09-03-2022, 07:29 PM   #11214
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WNDSRFR, it looks like you found your own answers about the drag reduction but I'll throw in a picture that highlights the vacuum line. It's hard to see but it goes into the side of the control box. You can also see my custom double dump pack, which I think may expand the lifecycle of my batteries. (I relocated my starter to the trunk)
The pot on the switch probably adjusts how fast the motor ramps up before full engagement but as you said is probably not noticeable unless you can track the rpm of the motor.

Qwimby1 I agree the simplicity of instillation and modest power gains are appealing, I just think the price at the end was going overboard. I got my kit on 10/1/2014 at $1,850 +$150 for batts(plus a tuning solution) the base kit was $1,550 that Rob stopped selling. At the end you could add aux charger, and the Proceede which I don't remember how much those cost. But IMO it was getting too complex/expensive and moving away from this systems strengths at that time.

The torqamp has VAT which brings it over $3,000, +intl shipping for us in the states. It would be more but the euro has been loosing value compared to the usd. I don't think you could reasonably intermingle our systems due to the 24/48V system differences.

Rob was against putting our dump pack in the trunk due to the line losses of the high current load, but with the torqamp doubling our voltage to 48 it should cut the current in half letting you run smaller gauge wire to the trunk with fewer losses.
If the torqamp uses a button I'll have to give that one to the phantom. I would not like locking my hand in one location while I have to do all the steering and shifting.
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