Subaru BRZ Prototype Review by Car and Driver. Calls it a Knockout.

[quik1987]

I thought it was confirmed the engine is called the FA20

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by Sabastian

Two Things:

1) There is no way that a modern-day, mainstream auto manufacturer would ever dream of shipping a car without a radio or air conditioning.

2) There is no way that this car will start at $20k. It's not 1995 anymore.

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

If you see only in US, yes. If you look world wide, no.

20K in '95 is about 29,775 in '11 with a 48.9% inflation rate

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/


Power might sound good but 28K and 2,800 lbs doesn't. Shame on Subaru for trying to take all the glory.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Well explain to me why most of the hardware is from Subaru? The engine, the platform, and the tweaked impreza suspension setup. Also tell me why the first prototype was a hacked together Subaru impreza and the only time we heard and seen the Toyota version was when it had the sexy body? the only thing I see personally that is Toyota is the D4-S addition to the engine and the sexy body that we both find attractive. Tell me something that I'm missing from this equation?

Because Toyota knows how to make use of it's resources better than anybody else? The engine is suited to the application, why else do you think they are using it? It's also a unique chassis now, so have fun arguing that "it's a subaru". Lastly, Do you really think that Subaru was gonna pick up one day and say... "you know what? let's build a rwd sports coupe"...mmm yeah. Okay. Seriously though, whatever dude. Believe what you want to, I don't really care. At the end of the day, I'm here for a car that drives like a descendant of a classic Toyota sports icon, not a diff locked Impreza, so take that however you want. If it does in fact weigh 2800lbs, it better drive like a 200hp LFA. Don't know how Subaru is gonna manage that. I also don't plan to pay $28k for it either, so ya know.... enjoy.

[Andy]

Well, they are pushing a £20,000.00+ price in the UK

20,000.00 GBP = 31,593.14 USD (going off todays conversion rate on www.xe.com/ucc)

If it comes out at US$20k then I'm moving to America! I can live with a Scion badge, it's still a Toyota (Toyobaru/Subaru)

[balance]

Not sure how much credibility should be given to this article, but "28K and 2800lb" is an oxymoron. If the final production model comes out with such spec, I'm out.

[DaveyG]

28K for a base model?! Thats fine as long as all the other info is wrong. Otherwise plenty of better options.

[Aki]

Sorry but I think the article is 100% bunk. I don't care if it came from Subaru.

Engine technology isn't plug and play. Toyota doesn't just hand over D4-S like a piece of lego, and tell Subaru "okay guys stick it into your engine and update us on the progress." Subaru would need to collaborate on how to integrate D4-S into its own engine architecture, understand tolerances, etc. For Subaru to insist it did all the work is ridiculous. Did the majority, maybe. But to say Toyota only skinned the BYZ into their own version is laughable.

Think it's rather immature for C&D to say this "couldn't have been engineered by Toyota." I'm saying this as a Honda guy who's hated on Toyotas for the past decade. But gimme a break, Toyota can't engineer sports cars? What about the freaking Lexus LF-A? Editor also has no clue what he's talking about when he says "plebian steel." Guess he's never heard of high-tensile strength steel?

$28k is a rip-off, and it's a pretty terrible estimate from C&D. Seeing the comparable alternatives (Genesis 2.0T coupe, Mustang V6) we're likely looking at $24k, $25k at the most. Also think there's no way in hell this is getting 170 ft-lbs of torque. Think 200 hp, 150 ft-lbs is the likely ballpark. 2800 lbs would also be epic fail given how small this car is.

Originally Posted by Andy

20,000.00 GBP = 31,593.14 USD (going off todays conversion rate on www.xe.com/ucc)

GBP price never comes close to USD. Taxes, tariffs make cars expensive in UK. So conversions mean nothing.

[madfast]

all i got to say is this:



yeah right subaru developed this car all by themselves...

[Aki]

Originally Posted by madfast

yeah right subaru developed this car all by themselves...

SOA blog would probably say they had Akio Toyoda tied to a leash during his runs, and had him polish SOA exec's shoes.

[[es vi: eks]]

Originally Posted by NumbersGuy

Not sure about the specs. 19/27 isn't bad MPG, as long as it is on regular octane and not premium.

Subaru SVX had a similar fuel eccommy as this... Its 3.3L flat 6 auto 4wd and weighs atleast 1609kgs.

I dont beleave it would only get that in the BRZ.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Because Toyota knows how to make use of it's resources better than anybody else? The engine is suited to the application, why else do you think they are using it? It's also a unique chassis now, so have fun arguing that "it's a subaru". Lastly, Do you really think that Subaru was gonna pick up one day and say... "you know what? let's build a rwd sports coupe"...mmm yeah. Okay. Seriously though, whatever dude. Believe what you want to, I don't really care. At the end of the day, I'm here for a car that drives like a descendant of a classic Toyota sports icon, not a diff locked Impreza, so take that however you want. If it does in fact weigh 2800lbs, it better drive like a 200hp LFA. Don't know how Subaru is gonna manage that. I also don't plan to pay $28k for it either, so ya know.... enjoy.

That's not a good excuse since other great handling cars don't necessarily use boxer engines like the s2000 and the Integra Type R for example. Also are you trying to say the platform belongs to Toyota? I heard it was a revamped Impreza platform? And yes I know Subaru never built a RWD sports car like Toyota has but I believe they played the major part of this car like a 60% Subie 40% Toyota. But anyways it doesn't matter like you said as long as it's a great drivers car.

[RRnold]

"We delievered the best chassis we could," he says, "and then the stying of the car was basically [Toyota's] role"

Toyota's designers shaped the body but only after the hard points of the chassis, powertrain, and the passenger compartment were fixed by Subaru

The two-piece prop shaft runs through a carrier bearing on it's way to the differential, which wears a Toyota part number

This Aaron Robinson character is trying to stir the pot! Toyota should have built this car on it's own!

[Matador]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

That's not a good excuse since other great handling cars don't necessarily use boxer engines like the s2000 and the Integra Type R for example. Also are you trying to say the platform belongs to Toyota? I heard it was a revamped Impreza platform? And yes I know Subaru never built a RWD sports car like Toyota has but I believe they played the major part of this car like a 60% Subie 40% Toyota. But anyways it doesn't matter like you said as long as it's a great drivers car.

Are you butt-hurt that Honda isn't building this car and Toyota is? Makes it a little more believable/acceptable to you that Subaru is doing the Lion's share of the engineering?

I'm not trying to be an ass, just genuinely asking.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Aki

Sorry but I think the article is 100% bunk. I don't care if it came from Subaru.

Engine technology isn't plug and play. Toyota doesn't just hand over D4-S like a piece of lego, and tell Subaru "okay guys stick it into your engine and update us on the progress." Subaru would need to collaborate on how to integrate D4-S into its own engine architecture, understand tolerances, etc. For Subaru to insist it did all the work is ridiculous. Did the majority, maybe. But to say Toyota only skinned the BYZ into their own version is laughable.

Think it's rather immature for C&D to say this "couldn't have been engineered by Toyota." I'm saying this as a Honda guy who's hated on Toyotas for the past decade. But gimme a break, Toyota can't engineer sports cars? What about the freaking Lexus LF-A? Editor also has no clue what he's talking about when he says "plebian steel." Guess he's never heard of high-tensile strength steel?

$28k is a rip-off, and it's a pretty terrible estimate from C&D. Seeing the comparable alternatives (Genesis 2.0T coupe, Mustang V6) we're likely looking at $24k, $25k at the most. Also think there's no way in hell this is getting 170 ft-lbs of torque. Think 200 hp, 150 ft-lbs is the likely ballpark. 2800 lbs would also be epic fail given how small this car is..

yep. lets list the things that are toyota related:

-this article mentions the diff is a toyota part
-Aisin tranny, both of them, are toyota related
-yamaha head, toyota related
-column mounted EPS, toyota related
-D-4S, toyota related
-Denso ECU (probably), toyota related

and i suspect as time goes on more and more parts will be toyota parts. and i'm supposed to believe that subaru engineers tuned all these toyota parts all by themselves, instead of a cooperative team like Tada-san said? 100% subaru developed my ass...