(GR86) Second Generation FR-S/BRZ insider info...

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

220 crank horsepower is available right now with tuning.

Not while passing emissions...

[Lantanafrs2]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Not while passing emissions...

We don't need to worry about that.

[wbradley]

Based on the May 9 article from Motor Trend, their credibility and where things are at presently, the story seems believable. Except I doubt they were on track for a summer 2020 launch for a 2021 model.

It would likely be on a shrunken TNGA-N Toyota platform and now delayed until summer of 2021 as a 2022 model. Not dropped. If it's a Toyota platform doesn't that mean using their assembly? I'd rather a Subaru with a Toyota engine this time if that was possible but then again even further from the original if so, and about 4" taller!

The part about a turbo 2.4 though, really changes a lot to be probable. For one thing, is this for a car with a base weight of 2750 lbs or are we talking 3350 lbs? Otherwise I just cannot see Toyobaru putting out a car that wheel spins on command, and that's how the current car would perform with that power stock. It would be far too risky for a manufacturer.

So, are we looking at a much bigger, heavier car?

And is the 2.4 T going to be a special halo model in lower volume, like on the TS only? Otherwise the 2.0 L Supra might be a short lived proposal, especially for North America.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by wbradley

Based on the May 9 article from Motor Trend, their credibility and where things are at presently, the story seems believable. Except I doubt they were on track for a summer 2020 launch for a 2021 model.

It would likely be on a shrunken TNGA-N Toyota platform and now delayed until summer of 2021 as a 2022 model. Not dropped. If it's a Toyota platform doesn't that mean using their assembly? I'd rather a Subaru with a Toyota engine this time if that was possible but then again even further from the original if so, and about 4" taller!

The part about a turbo 2.4 though, really changes a lot to be probable. For one thing, is this for a car with a base weight of 2750 lbs or are we talking 3350 lbs? Otherwise I just cannot see Toyobaru putting out a car that wheel spins on command, and that's how the current car would perform with that power stock. It would be far too risky for a manufacturer.

So, are we looking at a much bigger, heavier car?

And is the 2.4 T going to be a special halo model in lower volume, like on the TS only? Otherwise the 2.0 L Supra might be a short lived proposal, especially for North America.

Motor trend changes their story every time another clickbait comes out with more fiction. They have lost all credibility because of that. There My 9 write up is old fake news and based upon zero facts.

[Lantanafrs2]

Clickbait for ad revenue. Worthless

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by wbradley

Based on the May 9 article from Motor Trend, their credibility and where things are at presently, the story seems believable. Except I doubt they were on track for a summer 2020 launch for a 2021 model.

It would likely be on a shrunken TNGA-N Toyota platform and now delayed until summer of 2021 as a 2022 model. Not dropped. If it's a Toyota platform doesn't that mean using their assembly? I'd rather a Subaru with a Toyota engine this time if that was possible but then again even further from the original if so, and about 4" taller!

The part about a turbo 2.4 though, really changes a lot to be probable. For one thing, is this for a car with a base weight of 2750 lbs or are we talking 3350 lbs? Otherwise I just cannot see Toyobaru putting out a car that wheel spins on command, and that's how the current car would perform with that power stock. It would be far too risky for a manufacturer.

So, are we looking at a much bigger, heavier car?

And is the 2.4 T going to be a special halo model in lower volume, like on the TS only? Otherwise the 2.0 L Supra might be a short lived proposal, especially for North America.

I think both Toyota and Subaru have alluded to it using the TNGA over anything from Subaru, but it's hard to separate the truth from the completely made up nonsense lately.

Toyota needs the 2L supra to survive, so I would doubt they're going to do anything with the GR86 that jeopardizes that.

I'd believe an N/A 2.4L with 220-230hp, no chance it'll get a turbo engine. The turbo 2.4L would completely steal the 2L supra market share. Lighter, faster, and more interior space, no one would give the low end supra a look at all.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by wparsons

I think both Toyota and Subaru have alluded to the it using the TNGA over anything from Subaru

When have they done that?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Toyota needs the 2L supra to survive, so I would doubt they're going to do anything with the GR86 that jeopardizes that.

Not sure why Toyota needs the Supra to survive. If the Supra (and the 86) were cancelled tomorrow, it would have very little impact to their bottom line.

[nos145]

<speculation>
more speculation, but seems to be believable:
CarsGuide Link

currently we have subaru stamped all over the metal body of the car. so i assume it would carry over. The platform will probably offer up to 40% more rigidity.

the 8 speed will be from toyota, and aisin makes great units.

the biggest question is the engine. are they going to take the 2.4 boxer and stick toyota DI on it again? will they change internals so that it would be super hard to boost (no competition with supra) ?

subby platform +8speed auto already have me excited.
will have to see whether this will be worthy of a trade in.

ps. if subby does it, they may just go with the STI concept they had a while back pics of dat great ass

</speculation>

[nos145]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Not sure why Toyota needs the Supra to survive. If the Supra (and the 86) were cancelled tomorrow, it would have very little impact to their bottom line.

sometimes its about the image and not the profits.

did you know that most starbucks locations in the boonies run at a deficit? those locations for them are about brand awareness and occasional client retention (aka, don't buy other coffee brands, when u can have some of this (miata for ie for the twins)).

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by nos145

sometimes its about the image and not the profits.

did you know that most starbucks locations in the boonies run at a deficit? those locations for them are about brand awareness and occasional client retention (aka, don't buy other coffee brands, when u can have some of this (miata for ie for the twins)).

Oh, I get that, but I just don't think the Supra or the 86 has much of an impact on Toyota except maybe bringing a few new buyers their way. They seem to have done just fine in the almost 20 years they weren't selling a Supra. Had it not been for the Fast and Furious franchise it would just be a long ago dream for some at this point.

It would have had much more impact had they actually BUILT a Supra rather than codeveloping it. To me its the equivalent of Chevrolet teaming up with Porsche to build the C8 and it ending up more Porsche that Corvette. Would it be better, maybe, but it wouldn't be a Corvette.

[nos145]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

codeveloping

i know for the twins its due to Toyota owning 20% (now) of Subby.

as per the BMW thing, the justification was "Toyota decided against developing its own straight-six, which although did upset purists, it’s a business move that makes sense considering the Supra won’t be a high-volume car." edit: They prolly wanted to have something in all market segments and have it be cheap on their pocket. I hear the first gens were horrible quality thou...

They are dumping their V8 and going to a twin turbo V6 for the trucks in coming years, so prolly focusing R&D on that. I guess they wanted the supra to have an inline one, and the trucks to keep the V engines, which most of their other cars have (v4 and v6 for camry, corolla, etc). edit: But yes, having another inline 6 bulletproof engine would have been nice for purists (Thou not a good financial decision for corp).



OFFTOPIC: as a total sidepoint to your post in other thread about you wanting an AWD car, look into volvo c30 t5 AWD swaps. it will need a suspension update as well for better handling.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by wparsons

I think both Toyota and Subaru have eluded to the it using the TNGA over anything from Subaru, but it's hard to separate the truth from the completely made up nonsense lately.

Toyota needs the 2L supra to survive, so I would doubt they're going to do anything with the GR86 that jeopardizes that.

I'd believe an N/A 2.4L with 220-230hp, no chance it'll get a turbo engine. The turbo 2.4L would completely steal the 2L supra market share. Lighter, faster, and more interior space, no one would give the low end supra a look at all.

Neither has eluded to anything beyond "we are teaming up again". There is zero other info from them. Not one word.
The rumour that they were going to the Toyota platform originated in an article from Next car which now says the total opposite.
They don't need any Supra to survive. They don't make squat on them. They need several million Corollas, Camrys and Rav4s not a limited run version of a limited run halo car.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by nos145

"Toyota decided against developing its own straight-six, which although did upset purists, it’s a business move that makes sense considering the Supra won’t be a high-volume car." .

I personally couldn't have cared less about the straight 6 thing. A V6 would have served just as well, and had it allowed Toyota to fully develop the Supra I think it would have served them better.

Now, mind you, I'm not sure which way Supra fans would have preferred if that was the choice (co-developed with BMW, but with a straight six, or all Toyota DNA but a V6, and maybe a 4).