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Wheels | Tires | Spacers | Hub -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack Specific topics relating to wheels and tires.


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Old 12-05-2014, 02:41 AM   #15
mav1178
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Originally Posted by bacon_cheese_beer View Post
never got an alignment, lowered it myself. and im beating myself up for it now.
We've all been there if you started working on cars in your own garage.

Think of it this way:

Cost of average 17" tire: $100 or more
Cost of average 2-wheel alignment (just setting toe, nothing fancy): $40-60

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Old 12-05-2014, 03:00 AM   #16
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An alignment is likely the most important thing for the best driving experience overall. Not just for tire wear, rather for the car to handle properly. Stock or lowered its a yearly thing that should be reviewed and corrected, imo. I'm betting once you have it done and corrected you'll be amazed at how much better the car drives.
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Old 12-05-2014, 03:42 AM   #17
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Wow! I couldn't imagine doing all that work and not getting it aligned!

Look for a tuner friendly shop up there who has a laser alignment station. Down in Portland - we have PRE. I always take it to them. I don't think Bob at the Drift Office in Auburn has an alignment setup but you could always ask him He is also a great stop for dyno tuning, turbos etc.

Good luck. You will be amazed at how different the car handles with a proper alignment.
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Old 12-05-2014, 05:29 AM   #18
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an alignment here costs over 300 dollars. i just cant justify that yet lol.
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Old 12-05-2014, 08:40 AM   #19
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an alignment here costs over 300 dollars. i just cant justify that yet lol.
What if that $300 doubles your tire life? Then it pays for itself in the first set of tires saved.
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Old 12-05-2014, 09:29 AM   #20
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Do NOT "get an alignment" until you know what you want. Alignment specs on cars are not specific values for camber, toe, caster, etc, but are a VERY broad range. "Getting an alignment" means the shop will tweak as little as possible to ensure that every measurement is within that VERY broad range. Find a shop that will put the specs right where you want them.

Regarding the wear, here's what it looks like to me:
You tire fitments are slightly stretched, which makes the tires much more susceptible to camber wear. Clearly your right rear has more negative camber than the left rear. Both tires appear to have the same *average* wear across the tread, it's just that the left rear has a lot more wear on the inside and a lot less on the outside of the tread footprint.

Rear toe definitely hugely affects wear rate, much more so than camber does, but this will affect both rears equally. The car won't track down the road with more effective toe on one side, it will self-center so that the effective toe is the same for both rears. Any asymmetric toe (thrust angle) will cause you to crab down the road at a slight yaw angle. Anyway, long/short, toe is a HUGE player in tire wear, but it is the difference in left vs. right *camber* that caused the different wear patterns here.

I would get the rightside camber knocked down to what it is on the left, and ensure that you have minimal toe (zero to 0.2 degrees total, or zero to 0.1 degrees per side).

Last edited by ZDan; 12-05-2014 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 12-05-2014, 10:08 AM   #21
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What if that $300 doubles your tire life? Then it pays for itself in the first set of tires saved.
i have had no issue with tire life so far, and the wear is even. ive just got lucky with my car so far i guess. ill get around to it one of these days now that i have coil overs and ill get it corner balanced as well. i also dont floss my teeth, im a rebel. hehe.
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Old 12-05-2014, 10:59 AM   #22
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Camber and toe are related. Looks like due to the fact that you lowered you car, you increased negative camber and set the toe off
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Old 12-06-2014, 01:23 AM   #23
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Dont be fooled, just get a alignment, im running- 2.7 in the rear and have plenty of tread left, i adjusted my cortex racing tierods and failed to align some months back, this is what my hankook front right tyre looks lik
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Old 12-06-2014, 01:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellafunctional View Post
Camber and toe are related. Looks like due to the fact that you lowered you car, you increased negative camber and set the toe off
Adjusting camber with a LCA affects toe, but toe won't be off just because the car is lowered. I haven't looked close enough, but I don't think there is much bump steer (change in toe from suspension movement) which is what would be needed to cause toe to be out just from lowering.

Now, if you adjust the LCA to change camber, you'll most definitely throw the toe off with it.
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Old 12-07-2014, 03:39 PM   #25
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Adjusting camber with a LCA affects toe, but toe won't be off just because the car is lowered. I haven't looked close enough, but I don't think there is much bump steer (change in toe from suspension movement) which is what would be needed to cause toe to be out just from lowering.

Now, if you adjust the LCA to change camber, you'll most definitely throw the toe off with it.

It does not matter if you intentionally or inadvertently alter your camber setting, toe adjustment is directly linked to the camber setting. The degree to which the toe will be altered via changed ride height is dependent on the degree(s) of camber added(or removed).

In summary,

In the case of ride height,

Ride height alters camber > camber alters toe > toe is altered

In the case of LCA adjustment

Altered camber > toe is altered

You can think of it like this, sit down on a chair and use your toe as an anchor. Now push your knee down(altered ride height). You will notice your tibia increase in angle(altered camber) and your heel swing out(altered toe). This is why lowered cars often end up with toe in.

Hope this helps. I do not pretend to be an expert on anything (I'm just your everyday enthusiast) so please do not hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 12-07-2014, 08:48 PM   #26
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Yeah, that's not how the rear suspension works...

There is 4 links per side, UCA, LCA, trailing link and toe link. The LCA, trailing link and toe link simulate a normal LCA in a double wishbone suspension.

Camber changes with suspension travel because the UCA and LCA are different lengths, the toe arm fits in to keep the wheel straight as the suspension moves.

The reason adjusting camber from a LCA affects toe is because the toe link and LCA are parallel so lengthening or shortening the LCA without lengthening or shortening the toe link will definitely throw toe off.

If you adjust camber with the UCA you don't really change toe since the toe link is part of the lower arm system.

LCA is on the right, toe link is to the left of the axle.

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Old 12-07-2014, 10:07 PM   #27
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Negative camber issue...


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Old 12-08-2014, 02:51 AM   #28
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Yeah, that's not how the rear suspension works...

There is 4 links per side, UCA, LCA, trailing link and toe link. The LCA, trailing link and toe link simulate a normal LCA in a double wishbone suspension.

Camber changes with suspension travel because the UCA and LCA are different lengths, the toe arm fits in to keep the wheel straight as the suspension moves.

The reason adjusting camber from a LCA affects toe is because the toe link and LCA are parallel so lengthening or shortening the LCA without lengthening or shortening the toe link will definitely throw toe off.

If you adjust camber with the UCA you don't really change toe since the toe link is part of the lower arm system.

LCA is on the right, toe link is to the left of the axle.


Interesting..I didn't even know the 86 incorporated a multilink rear suspension. Thanks for the explanation!
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