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Old 11-23-2021, 08:39 PM   #1
evidence
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downshifting to second

been driving my 2013 fr-s alone for a few weeks and ive had an issue when downshifting into 2nd or 1st, it just does not wanna go into gear and i try not to force it. sometimes it goes in sometimes it doesnt. and like after ive driven it at the end of the day it shifts like butter, smooth asf. any advice or knowledge would be greatly appreciated im a new driver . 40k miles btw

Last edited by evidence; 11-23-2021 at 08:40 PM. Reason: had to tell miles
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Old 11-23-2021, 08:54 PM   #2
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Normal behavior for these cars. Before things get warmed up, learn to double clutch when you need to down shift.
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Old 11-23-2021, 11:57 PM   #3
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adjust your clutch. Make sure it has minimal free play. yes it needs some, but if it has too much, the rod won't have enough authority to move the master cylinder enough.
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:44 AM   #4
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Totally normal for 2nd to be hard to put in when the car is cold.
Also I'm not sure there's a point downshifting into 1st.
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Old 11-24-2021, 03:34 PM   #5
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Two solutions that work for me. 1. a small throttle blip will help the synchros do their thing (similar to double clutching) and 2. use patience with the shifter. put light pressure on the shifter and wait for it to slide into first.
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Old 11-24-2021, 03:37 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding View Post
use patience with the shifter. put light pressure on the shifter and wait for it to slide into first.
This is key. You apply mild pressure into the gate you want, and you can actually feel the synchro spinning up, and then the shifter falls into place.
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Old 11-24-2021, 04:41 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding View Post
a small throttle blip will help the synchros do their thing (similar to double clutching)
If you apply the throttle with the clutch depressed, you gain nothing inside the transmission, just match the speed of the flywheel to the speed of the transmission input shaft (which has sped up by the synchros) for when you release the clutch.
During double declutching you throttle blip while the shifter is in neutral and the clutch is engaged, hence you spin up the input shaft to match the speed of the output shaft times the gear ratio.

Being gentle with the gear lever does help, as well as momentarily easing the pressure and then applying it again. I rarely have issues with downshifting to 2nd, even at fairly high speeds, but to 1st is always a tough one.
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Old 11-24-2021, 05:20 PM   #8
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Rev matching is far more important the double clutching. I never double clutch my car and have no issue getting into second at speed.
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Old 11-24-2021, 05:41 PM   #9
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Again, rev-matching doesn't make any difference with how easy or difficult it is to select a gear. Feel free to try it without rev-matching and you'll see that the only difference occurs when you let go of the clutch pedal, not when you move the gear lever.
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Old 11-24-2021, 06:27 PM   #10
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Again, rev-matching doesn't make any difference with how easy or difficult it is to select a gear. Feel free to try it without rev-matching and you'll see that the only difference occurs when you let go of the clutch pedal, not when you move the gear lever.
Helps a lot on my car, basically can't shift down in the cold without it. It is also easier motion wise then trying to double clutch. I have never really found that much benefit in double clutching a syncro'd transmission. Even a non syncro'd trans I have always found it easier to float and just give a light blip.
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Old 11-24-2021, 06:57 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast View Post
If you apply the throttle with the clutch depressed, you gain nothing inside the transmission, just match the speed of the flywheel to the speed of the transmission input shaft (which has sped up by the synchros) for when you release the clutch.
During double declutching you throttle blip while the shifter is in neutral and the clutch is engaged, hence you spin up the input shaft to match the speed of the output shaft times the gear ratio.

Being gentle with the gear lever does help, as well as momentarily easing the pressure and then applying it again. I rarely have issues with downshifting to 2nd, even at fairly high speeds, but to 1st is always a tough one.
while dry clutches don't have the viscous coupling that plagues wet clutches I don't think they are completely frictionless. A throttle blip will spin up the flywheel and pressure plate and, in doing so, will exert some pressure on the clutch disk and slightly unload the transmission. It's not huge and not as important as rev matching for the clutch release, but it seems to help in some situations.

I generally have no problem down shifting to first although I don't do it often at speeds above 10 mph. In my experience it rewards patience.
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Old 11-24-2021, 06:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
Helps a lot on my car, basically can't shift down in the cold without it. It is also easier motion wise then trying to double clutch.
Sounds like you're not talking about rev-matching but something else. Rev-matching is hitting the throttle pedal while the clutch is depressed. It only speeds up the flywheel and has no bearing on the transmission whatsoever.

Regular downshift:
  1. Depress the clutch pedal
  2. Move the gear lever to a lower gear. The synchros speed up the transmission's input shaft
  3. Release the clutch pedal. This will cause a jolt as the transmission speeds up the engine

Rev-matching downshift:
  1. Depress the clutch pedal
  2. Move the gear lever to a lower gear; at the same time blip the throttle pedal. The synchros speed up the transmission's input shaft
  3. Release the clutch pedal. As the engine is up to speed, there will be no jolt
(bonus - heel and toe downshifting is the same as rev-matching downshifting, just with the brake pedal applied throughout the entire process, with the throttle blip being done with the right foot while it's still pressing on the brake pedal)

Double declutching downshift:
  1. Depress the clutch pedal
  2. Move the gear lever to neutral
  3. Release the clutch pedal
  4. Blip the throttle pedal
  5. Depress the clutch pedal
  6. Move the gear lever to a lower gear. This should be effortless and the synchros barely needing to do any speed matching (if done correctly)
  7. Release the clutch pedal. There should be no jolt, as the engine should still be up to speed from the throttle blip
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding View Post
while dry clutches don't have the viscous coupling that plagues wet clutches I don't think they are completely frictionless.
An interesting theory. I'm pretty sure it's wrong, but there's an easy test for it - while standing still with the engine on, depress the clutch pedal. Move the gear lever through the lower gears.
Then rev the engine to high RPM and move the gear lever again. If your theory is correct, there should be a noticeable difference in the movement of the lever. I'll try it out the next time I'm driving.
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast View Post
An interesting theory. I'm pretty sure it's wrong, but there's an easy test for it - while standing still with the engine on, depress the clutch pedal. Move the gear lever through the lower gears.
Then rev the engine to high RPM and move the gear lever again. If your theory is correct, there should be a noticeable difference in the movement of the lever. I'll try it out the next time I'm driving.

You could also try this,

a. put the car in neutral and try pushing it.

Then,

b, put it in first and have someone depress the clutch and try pushing it. In my fairly lengthy experience a car in gear with the clutch disengaged is more difficult to push than a car in neutral.
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