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Old 09-17-2018, 01:27 AM   #15
Captain Snooze
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Originally Posted by 86MLR View Post
Point of note is that MCA recommendations are to keep the OEM bars as the suspension is designed to give best performance with the OEM bars.
I will argue this point.
The stock bars were developed with the stock suspension. As soon as you alter the spring rates the original design parameters no longer apply.

Josh was somewhat surprised when I told him I was running their suspension without sways.

You are running 6k/4.5k (which to me looks like you have too soft a spring at the rear for those front rates. That's only about 2.5k at the wheel). My Reds were originally 6k/6k. At Josh's suggestion when I had the Reds serviced I went with non-inverted and 7k/6k.

Which is better? None of the above. Because compromise.
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Old 09-17-2018, 01:30 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Captain Snooze View Post
I will argue this point.
The stock bars were developed with the stock suspension. As soon as you alter the spring rates the original design parameters no longer apply.

Josh was somewhat surprised when I told him I was running their suspension without sways.

You are running 6k/4.5k. My Reds were originally 6k/6k. At Josh's suggestion when I had the Reds serviced I went with non-inverted and 7k/6k.

Which is better? None. Because compromise.


The only way for the op to find out which is best is for him to try it and see what he likes.
I have the street performance (purple), from my understanding they are more compliant and street orientated.

In the end I just do what he recommended, I'm just a punter, he is the man with the plan.

As for how the car handles now, it's brilliant, chalk and cheese from OEM.
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Old 09-17-2018, 02:17 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Snooze View Post
I will argue this point.
The stock bars were developed with the stock suspension. As soon as you alter the spring rates the original design parameters no longer apply.

Josh was somewhat surprised when I told him I was running their suspension without sways.

You are running 6k/4.5k (which to me looks like you have too soft a spring at the rear for those front rates. That's only about 2.5k at the wheel). My Reds were originally 6k/6k. At Josh's suggestion when I had the Reds serviced I went with non-inverted and 7k/6k.

Which is better? None of the above. Because compromise.
You had me second guessing myself, I do that alot now, LOL.

On the setup sheet (took me a while to find it) they provide, there is a note: MCA does not recommend roll centre adjusters, aftermarket larger swaybars and polyurethane bushes with these.

Albeit I asked for something better than the OEM Sachs/Spring combo for mainly street with a few khanas and a couple of track days, I believe thrashing the car around the Nasho was also used.

For a more track/khana setup they might suggest something else.

But for me the car is in a very happy place handling wise, maybe a better link between the controls could pick some faults, not me though.

What's your local?
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Old 09-17-2018, 02:40 AM   #18
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What's my local what? Pub? Track?
Is that location? Canberra.
What is "Nasho"?
Local track, I assume Wakie.

The Nasho = The Royal National Park

I head down to Wakie a few times a year to pit for some mates on occasion, and by pit I mean take the piss when they DNF and maybe take a pressure or 2, I did alot of laps there years ago, now, not so much.
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:31 AM   #19
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I don't like calling swaybars band-aids...they're part of a system. OEM uses them for a reason and designed the OEM bars for the OEM system. Doesn't necessarily mean don't use OEM bars if you change other things, but just be aware of the complete system.

Good to remember that the motion ratio of the rear bar is quite a bit different than the motion ratio of the front bar, so going up 2mm on both may shift overall roll stiffness forward (depending on the bar and adjustments). But roll stiffness isn't the only thing that affects handling balance.

IMO...if you have really good shocks and can run stiff springs (or don't need a lot of roll stiffness), you can put together a system that uses stock bars. If you have to compromise on your springs/shocks OR just want a bit more roll stiffness (tire choice comes into play here), larger bars can be a positive. Adjustable bars of any size is a big positive IMO. Adjust overall handling balance relatively quickly and easily.

20/16 is a good option for many, and 22/16 (our RCE hollow bars are about that in terms of effectiveness) is a good choice for some autocrossers and those that need a bit more front roll stiffness. For example, 7 kg/mm springs + 20/16 adjustable bars is a reasonable choice for r-comp tires at the track and will give you some control over balance with the adjustability.

- Andrew

Last edited by Racecomp Engineering; 09-17-2018 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 09-17-2018, 07:42 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
yet everyone also says that a sway bar is a BandAid
If by "BandAid", you mean "tuning device", then I agree, if not, then "everyone" does not say that " .

ARB's are a tuning device, to dial in the balance of the car. That's why race cars will use driver adjustable ARB's when rules permit.
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