follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing

Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing Relating to suspension, chassis, and brakes. Sponsored by 949 Racing.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-25-2020, 12:49 AM   #29
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 7,882
Thanks: 5,665
Thanked 5,802 Times in 3,297 Posts
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
What alignment would be ideal for my driving style (daily and canyons and hooning)? Like I know I can’t adjust much as is, but say I could adjust anything then what is the ideal setup for me? Like back to factory specs would be good? How much camber is ideal? Obviously no camber is needed to go straight down the road, and shouldn’t there be some dynamic camber under cornering suspension compression, right? Would a basic alignment place know the stock specs, or do I need to supply that or my wishes? Just looking to be prepared.
__________________
My Build | K24 Turbo Swap | *K24T BRZ SOLD*
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2020, 01:47 AM   #30
Decep
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Drives: 2013 FR-S Series 10
Location: CA
Posts: 1,073
Thanks: 172
Thanked 497 Times in 326 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Find a place that accepts custom alignments, a lot of places just want to put it on the rack and make sure the numbers are green and make the quick buck.

With lowering you should be able to get -2 degrees front with camber bolts easily enough. Lower control arms in the rear is recommended for adjusting rear camber.

I'd say -2F -1.5R is a good starting point but honestly if you can tell a huge difference on the street between -2 degrees and -1 degrees you are probably gonna get your car impounded at some point. I prefer zero toe but a teeny bit of toe in helps stability
__________________
2013 FR-S 10 Series ~75k (SOLD)
RCE SS-1 Coilovers
Corsa Catback
Edelbrock Supercharger installed @ 50k
Decep is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Decep For This Useful Post:
Irace86.2.0 (07-25-2020), Yoshoobaroo (07-25-2020)
Old 07-25-2020, 08:52 AM   #31
Yoshoobaroo
TRACKBREAD
 
Yoshoobaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Drives: 2013 BRZ
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,929
Thanks: 2,660
Thanked 4,024 Times in 1,895 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
What alignment would be ideal for my driving style (daily and canyons and hooning)? Like I know I can’t adjust much as is, but say I could adjust anything then what is the ideal setup for me? Like back to factory specs would be good? How much camber is ideal? Obviously no camber is needed to go straight down the road, and shouldn’t there be some dynamic camber under cornering suspension compression, right? Would a basic alignment place know the stock specs, or do I need to supply that or my wishes? Just looking to be prepared.

This should be pretty good for a ~1” lowered car. Toe is the most important here, you want 0 up front ideally. The steering in this car is precise enough that it won’t be unstable at speed. Camber and Caster will be what it is most likely, it’s not adjustable on this car. They can adjust the front a tiny bit by shifting the strut mounts in the bolt holes, but they likely won’t.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
None of the tires show center wear. It is progressive from the inside out.

That’s good! Pressure should be okay then! We do have to keep in mind than the range of acceptable tire pressure is pretty wide.
Yoshoobaroo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Yoshoobaroo For This Useful Post:
Irace86.2.0 (07-25-2020), Jdmjunkie (07-25-2020), Racecomp Engineering (07-25-2020)
Old 07-25-2020, 02:20 PM   #32
JD001
Senior Member
 
JD001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Drives: Subaru BRZ
Location: UK
Posts: 6,002
Thanks: 7,621
Thanked 6,164 Times in 3,461 Posts
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Another thing to check is the condition of your shocks. If they're knackered then you can experience some strange wear patterns on the tyre.
JD001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2020, 08:58 PM   #33
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 7,882
Thanks: 5,665
Thanked 5,802 Times in 3,297 Posts
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
UPDATE: I took the car in for the alignment. Here are the results. I am ordering some Michelin Pilot 4S, so I have them ready. I think the toe is part of the problem, but because the left front is so good and the right front is so bad, and the toe seems to be both bad, I can only conclude that perhaps it is just the driving style.

I was explaining to the technician how the left rear kicks out to the left under heavy throttle like 99% of the time, and how I thought it does it less with traction control on, which leads me to believe it is the VSC, and he said that could be the case. I asked how I could have such bad wear on one and good wear on the other, and the technician says in the US we make more right hand turns, which makes sense like I am much more likely to make a power slide on right hand turns from a stop (for fun) than during wider and longer left hand turns. Maybe that could explain some of it. I don't know.

__________________
My Build | K24 Turbo Swap | *K24T BRZ SOLD*
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Irace86.2.0 For This Useful Post:
Thefalls (08-01-2020)
Old 07-30-2020, 01:59 AM   #34
RayRay88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Drives: 2017 86 860 Special Edition
Location: Toronto
Posts: 559
Thanks: 198
Thanked 461 Times in 241 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Looks like Toe was all your issues, that plus slightly over inflated tire pressures. 35/38 cold pressures can easily become over-inflation after 15-20mins of highway driving. Old tires are also very sensitive to bad toe/camber and will start wearing unevenly.

I'm still shocked people make suspension changes and think it's ok to drive without an alignment.
RayRay88 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to RayRay88 For This Useful Post:
Irace86.2.0 (07-30-2020), JD001 (07-30-2020), p1l0t (07-30-2020)
Old 07-30-2020, 09:39 AM   #35
Racecomp Engineering
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: 2016 BRZ, 2012 Paris Di2 & 2018 STI
Location: Severn, MD
Posts: 5,393
Thanks: 3,406
Thanked 7,233 Times in 2,957 Posts
Mentioned: 303 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to Racecomp Engineering
The "before" was not good.

- Andrew
Racecomp Engineering is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Racecomp Engineering For This Useful Post:
Irace86.2.0 (07-30-2020)
Old 07-30-2020, 12:50 PM   #36
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 7,882
Thanks: 5,665
Thanked 5,802 Times in 3,297 Posts
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayRay88 View Post
Looks like Toe was all your issues, that plus slightly over inflated tire pressures. 35/38 cold pressures can easily become over-inflation after 15-20mins of highway driving. Old tires are also very sensitive to bad toe/camber and will start wearing unevenly.

I'm still shocked people make suspension changes and think it's ok to drive without an alignment.
0.9” drop, and I’m oversized on my tires by 3%, so it is about a 0.5” drop in chassis to ground height and less than an inch in drop from chassis to hub. I figured that wasn’t exactly large enough to make much difference in toe. I’m still surprised 0.04 degree of toe difference between the right and left front was enough to destroy a tire and leave a tire looking fairly new.
__________________
My Build | K24 Turbo Swap | *K24T BRZ SOLD*
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 04:13 PM   #37
RayRay88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Drives: 2017 86 860 Special Edition
Location: Toronto
Posts: 559
Thanks: 198
Thanked 461 Times in 241 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
0.9” drop, and I’m oversized on my tires by 3%, so it is about a 0.5” drop in chassis to ground height and less than an inch in drop from chassis to hub. I figured that wasn’t exactly large enough to make much difference in toe. I’m still surprised 0.04 degree of toe difference between the right and left front was enough to destroy a tire and leave a tire looking fairly new.
Toe will exacerbate any underlying issues like over inflation, old heat cycled tires etc,

The "chassis to hub/ground height" is irrelevant and not a constant or tangible measurement.

Makes sense, most people, like yourself, don't understand how suspensions work. This is why I think there should be more disclaimers everywhere in instruction manuals and DIY's. if you make any change to your suspension geometry you should get an alignment. Best err on the side of caution rather than destroy your tires. $100 is good insurance when spending $500-$800 on tires, not to mention better handling.
RayRay88 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RayRay88 For This Useful Post:
Jdmjunkie (07-30-2020)
Old 07-30-2020, 05:40 PM   #38
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 7,882
Thanks: 5,665
Thanked 5,802 Times in 3,297 Posts
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayRay88 View Post
Toe will exacerbate any underlying issues like over inflation, old heat cycled tires etc,

The "chassis to hub/ground height" is irrelevant and not a constant or tangible measurement.

Makes sense, most people, like yourself, don't understand how suspensions work. This is why I think there should be more disclaimers everywhere in instruction manuals and DIY's. if you make any change to your suspension geometry you should get an alignment. Best err on the side of caution rather than destroy your tires. $100 is good insurance when spending $500-$800 on tires, not to mention better handling.
So that toe difference is difference enough to explain no wear versus terrible wear? Interesting.
__________________
My Build | K24 Turbo Swap | *K24T BRZ SOLD*
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 06:22 PM   #39
itschris
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Drives: '14
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 46
Thanks: 19
Thanked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
So that toe difference is difference enough to explain no wear versus terrible wear? Interesting.
When looking at front toe, just look at the total. You'll naturally compensate with the steering wheel so it's even side to side. There is no difference left to right, except how centered the steering wheel was when the shop performed the alignment.

Even though you have very little camber, wear from toe out + neg camber is going to compound. -0.9 deg * half the total toe out is going to cause way more inside edge wear than -0.4 deg * half the total toe out.

You might notice some outside edge wear now that your toe is zeroed, but high tire pressures could hide it. Watch it and think about camber bolts if you notice any appearing.
itschris is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to itschris For This Useful Post:
Irace86.2.0 (07-30-2020), RayRay88 (07-30-2020)
Old 07-30-2020, 08:27 PM   #40
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 7,882
Thanks: 5,665
Thanked 5,802 Times in 3,297 Posts
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by itschris View Post
When looking at front toe, just look at the total. You'll naturally compensate with the steering wheel so it's even side to side. There is no difference left to right, except how centered the steering wheel was when the shop performed the alignment.

Even though you have very little camber, wear from toe out + neg camber is going to compound. -0.9 deg * half the total toe out is going to cause way more inside edge wear than -0.4 deg * half the total toe out.

You might notice some outside edge wear now that your toe is zeroed, but high tire pressures could hide it. Watch it and think about camber bolts if you notice any appearing.
I see. I missed that, as I was just fixed on the absolute and relative measurements by themselves, which didn’t look egregious, but that makes sense. The camber wasn’t that big and neither was the difference, and the toe wasn’t much different, so I didn’t even put two and two together that the synergistic effect would make the difference. Thanks.
__________________
My Build | K24 Turbo Swap | *K24T BRZ SOLD*
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Irace86.2.0 For This Useful Post:
RayRay88 (07-30-2020)
Old 08-01-2020, 12:28 PM   #41
Thefalls
Senior Member
 
Thefalls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Drives: Corolla GT
Location: Sunny place.
Posts: 208
Thanks: 371
Thanked 117 Times in 89 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
UPDATE: I took the car in for the alignment. Here are the results. I am ordering some Michelin Pilot 4S, so I have them ready. I think the toe is part of the problem, but because the left front is so good and the right front is so bad, and the toe seems to be both bad, I can only conclude that perhaps it is just the driving style.

I was explaining to the technician how the left rear kicks out to the left under heavy throttle like 99% of the time, and how I thought it does it less with traction control on, which leads me to believe it is the VSC, and he said that could be the case. I asked how I could have such bad wear on one and good wear on the other, and the technician says in the US we make more right hand turns, which makes sense like I am much more likely to make a power slide on right hand turns from a stop (for fun) than during wider and longer left hand turns. Maybe that could explain some of it. I don't know.

Your Tech is right in what he said. I have noticed the same thing. Left rear has more wear due to same driving style.
Thefalls is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Thefalls For This Useful Post:
Irace86.2.0 (08-01-2020)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How does my tire wear look? R_E_L Wheels | Tires | Spacers | Hub -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack 14 09-08-2018 07:34 AM
tire wear oppiee Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting 9 08-29-2017 12:55 PM
Tire Wear? Flo Wheels | Tires | Spacers | Hub -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack 12 01-10-2017 03:19 PM
Uneven Tire Wear tofurun Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting 2 11-22-2016 11:45 PM
Uneven wear with AP Racing Sprint BBK ATL BRZ Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 57 09-05-2016 10:55 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.