anyone jump ship to a 2015+ Mustang GT?

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

??????????

I did say that and it was an exaggeration...

I further qualified it later on.

Although the cost of getting 320hp and doing so is negligible over the cost of getting 265, so the point is still valid, which is, for the money, the twin can be made faster.

Actually, the point with the original statement was to show that weight reduction in a car that's over a 1000lbs heavier is kind of laughable when comparing weight.

If you wanna compare potential output, then do so...but weight reduction? come on.

Jaden

[Chad11491]

FRS - 26k
full blown stage 1 turbo (265whp) - 6.3k

assuming nothing else that's 32.3k

that's exactly the same as a base gt

not faster, as shown.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I did say that and it was an exaggeration...

I further qualified it later on.

Although the cost of getting 320hp and doing so is negligible over the cost of getting 265, so the point is still valid, which is, for the money, the twin can be made faster.

Actually, the point with the original statement was to show that weight reduction in a car that's over a 1000lbs heavier is kind of laughable when comparing weight.

If you wanna compare potential output, then do so...but weight reduction? come on.

Jaden

I'm sorry that you don't get this. These cars take quite an investment to get them to stock Camaro / mustang speed levels. It takes a serious investment to go FASTER than THAT. Those cars do that speed without ANY weight reduction. So....unless you're going all out built motor and everything AND only road racing, those cars are going to be faster in 99% of instances.


I'm sure if you look at those svtperformance or ls1tech links you'll see 8 and 9 second Camaros and mustangs with little to no weight reduction. With the torque and horsepower to dollar ratio those cars have it is easier and cheaper to make them faster in a straight line... they already have a MUCH faster baseline. Those cars also have YEARS of R&D and they can be made to handle even with the weight. Just look at the boss 302 and the ZL1 Camaro. I feel like if you ever rode in a C5 or C6 Z06 around a track you would probably shit yourself. Those cars are only 4-500 lbs more than the 86 and have about 4 times the HP (slight exaggeration). You can find C5Zs for high teens to mid 20's (NICE) or C6Z for mid 30's.... This is a huge rabbit hole of bench racing, but seriously.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Chad11491

FRS - 26k
full blown stage 1 turbo (265whp) - 6.3k

assuming nothing else that's 32.3k

that's exactly the same as a base gt

not faster, as shown.

here's what the stage one is capable of...

www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31687

now would you have to spend more or less total to get the equivalent performance out of a mustang. which should need more than 500whp...

Jaden

I mean why can't you guys just say, yeah you can get the twins faster, but you sacrifice reliability... instead of the bullshit about oh no matter what you do, you'll be slower...

[Chad11491]

I guess you're going to ignore that transmissions in the 86 like to shear 4th gear off anywhere near those power levels.

But no, you're right. You'd have to spend about 5k to supercharge the mustang to get to a reliable 600+ hp and then be about 2-3k more than the 86.....and still be faster...

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

I'm sorry that you don't get this. These cars take quite an investment to get them to stock Camaro / mustang speed levels. It takes a serious investment to go FASTER than THAT. Those cars do that speed without ANY weight reduction. So....unless you're going all out built motor and everything AND only road racing, those cars are going to be faster in 99% of instances.


I'm sure if you look at those svtperformance or ls1tech links you'll see 8 and 9 second Camaros and mustangs with little to no weight reduction. With the torque and horsepower to dollar ratio those cars have it is easier and cheaper to make them faster in a straight line... they already have a MUCH faster baseline. Those cars also have YEARS of R&D and they can be made to handle even with the weight. Just look at the boss 302 and the ZL1 Camaro. I feel like if you ever rode in a C5 or C6 Z06 around a track you would probably shit yourself. Those cars are only 4-500 lbs more than the 86 and have about 4 times the HP (slight exaggeration). You can find C5Zs for high teens to mid 20's (NICE) or C6Z for mid 30's.... This is a huge rabbit hole of bench racing, but seriously.

is OVER 50K... I could easily put an LS1 in a twin for less than that and then have more potential than the 1100lb heavier car could EVER have.

I mean come on.

I have driven a C7 z06 and it is insanely fast... and a corvette at only 4-500 lbs more than our cars is much more understandable but is also again starting at 50K+...

Jaden

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Chad11491

I guess you're going to ignore that transmissions in the 86 like to shear 4th gear off anywhere near those power levels.

But no, you're right. You'd have to spend about 5k to supercharge the mustang to get to a reliable 600+ hp and then be about 2-3k more than the 86.....and still be faster...

an eforce for the mustang is 9K and makes ~600bhp....putting it in the low 500whp..and about equivalent to a maxed out stage one...albeit more reliable and probably faster with the torque characteristics, etc..but still almost 10K more than the twin.

Jaden

Now I've said all this based on the ability to do all the work yourself, and build it up over time. There's an LS swap that the guy did most of the work himself and he did it for about 12K total after selling his stock parts. add an eforce on top of that and you're looking at a total below 50K and performance that is unheard of in anything but super cars. REMEMBER ALL of what I've said is contingent upon doing everything yourself...

[Summerwolf]

I was using the ZL1 to show you a Camaro can handle..... not compare prices. Now putting a V8 in the twin you are talking! That is a great way to get power out of the FA20 (lol) and you may just be able to do it in that 32K price cap.


I didn't state a new corvette, I simply mentioned corvettes that would be at this "magical" 32K price cap that the FRS would have to modify to be faster than a base mustang.


The point you aren't getting....is that as it sits, it takes more money than you think to make the 86 a "quick" car. The whole weight to horsepower thing is not the only consideration.


BTW that full blown stage 1 thread you linked had a blown motor in it.

[Chad11491]

Originally Posted by Jaden

an eforce for the mustang is 9K and makes ~600bhp....putting it in the low 500whp..and about equivalent to a maxed out stage one...albeit more reliable.

Jaden

And a procharger p15c makes 588whp for 6k

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Chad11491

And a procharger p15c makes 588whp for 6k

It would be tougher to beat 588 whp for a twin..they claim up to 230hp gain

so that would 665 bhp...

but again when you're talking about spending 45K+ total...

an LS swapped and supercharged twin wouldn't put you much above that...also if you're planning on swapping an engine, you don't have to buy a twin new. You buy a salvaged twin that was formerly stolen and stripped and then the dollar to dollar comparison isn't even close.

As for the FA20... I've NEVER said anything about having to stay with an FA20...

I'm talking about dollar for dollar performance... There will be levels where it gets close and one goes above the potential of the other then it just comes down to personal preference.

I love the look of the 15+ mustangs. My choice on a car was between the mustang and the twin... I may still even get a mustang in addition to my twin. I just wish they would've followed through on reducing the weight as opposed to increasing it.

At the top end of performance though, the twin will come out ahead simply because of the weight issue. You can ADD the power to the twin, you can't reduce enough weight from the stang to really get there...

Jaden

well the other reason I chose the twin is because my auto group doesn't have a ford dealeship any more...

[Summerwolf]

Just.....wow.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Just.....wow.

My thoughts exactly to some of your statements....

Jaden

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Yeah the 3076 is good at higher boost levels.

I'm gonna need a bigger one though because first I'm getting an e-force and then I'm going compound boost once I get a built motor, so I need something that will flow 45lbs/min at between 13-15 lbs of boost to compound it to 30 with the sc...

Jaden

Holy shit, how much are you spending on this FA20 when it is so easy to motor swap / do anything else to get power out of the car but this plan?

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Holy shit, how much are you spending on this FA20 when it is so easy to motor swap / do anything else to get power out of the car but this plan?

Why don't you just go fuck yourself...

I've considered doing many things. One of the things I'm considering is getting a stripped car and doing an ls swap...

I was originally limited in what I can do because of living in Socal...but since my plans are to move out of state in the next couple of years I decided on staying with a built FA20 and seeing what I could really do with it, at least in my current car..

I'm not discussing what I'm currently doing until it's done...but it's not even using the e-force...

One of the other projects I'm working on isn't getting discussed either, except that it should add 70+% power to any ICE without adding fuel.

Jaden