follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Off-Topic Discussions > Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS]

Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS] For all off-topic discussion topics.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-02-2022, 11:41 AM   #43
Irace86.2.0
K Swap Everything
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 6,418
Thanks: 4,706
Thanked 4,906 Times in 2,732 Posts
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphireho View Post
I don't know the point of this thread.
I’m just trying to shed light on the flawed mentality.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2022, 11:56 AM   #44
Irace86.2.0
K Swap Everything
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 6,418
Thanks: 4,706
Thanked 4,906 Times in 2,732 Posts
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphireho View Post
People have been saying that my entire life.
Well, as the data shows, that makes perfect sense. Unless you were born in the 1920ís, anyone since the 1960ís has seen homes appreciating. It would be impossible to continue indefinitely. Thatís the point.
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Irace86.2.0 For This Useful Post:
soundman98 (07-02-2022)
Old 07-02-2022, 12:05 PM   #45
Irace86.2.0
K Swap Everything
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 6,418
Thanks: 4,706
Thanked 4,906 Times in 2,732 Posts
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Snooze View Post
Funny stuff, but correlation isnít causation, yet in this case, wages and DTI is directly correlated and will ultimately be the causation for a market correction once the housing mania bursts.

I think there will either be a dramatic panic that crashes the housing market, or there will be a continuous rise in the interest rate to slow the appreciation rate, or the market will need a huge incentives to build at affordable rates instead of continuing to build towards the upper end of the market, or something I havenít thought of. I donít know when. Maybe later today Iíll calculate when it could happen.
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2022, 12:15 PM   #46
2020BRZtS
Senior Member
 
2020BRZtS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Drives: '20 BRZ tS (15/300) / '09 Scion tC
Location: PA
Posts: 606
Thanks: 369
Thanked 724 Times in 341 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
Not really true. Iíve bought two houses in the last 12 years, one for 70k and for 90k. I rented one and lived in the other. Remodeled and sold both and came out with significant amount of profit. All on an average single income. It can be done but is getting much much harder and the numbers are a lot bigger. I payed under market for my current house but it needs a ton of work. I imagine when I go to sell this one I will come out well ahead too.
I don't think this can happen for everybody. Chances are when you say you remodeled... you mean you remodeled. For someone like me who sits at a computer all day, the level of expertise needed to tackle a whole house remodel would mean paying retail for labor.

I hope the proceeds from your two sales put you in a place that you are mortgage-free on your newest home.

There was a family who moved into my development in 2006 at the top of the market. They got an 80/20 loan so no equity and two mortgage payments out of the gate. By 2010 they were divorced, underwater, and foreclosed. Their cars were repossessed as well but that's a different topic.
__________________
2020BRZtS is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 2020BRZtS For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (07-02-2022), soundman98 (07-02-2022), Wally86 (07-06-2022)
Old 07-02-2022, 12:52 PM   #47
Irace86.2.0
K Swap Everything
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 6,418
Thanks: 4,706
Thanked 4,906 Times in 2,732 Posts
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
Not really true. Iíve bought two houses in the last 12 years, one for 70k and for 90k. I rented one and lived in the other. Remodeled and sold both and came out with significant amount of profit. All on an average single income. It can be done but is getting much much harder and the numbers are a lot bigger. I payed under market for my current house but it needs a ton of work. I imagine when I go to sell this one I will come out well ahead too.




Since the 08í recession rental agencies have been buying foreclosed houses. Companies with nothing to do with the rental or home market have opened investment property divisions. The problem is states like OR have maximum year increase caps, and as businesses do,
they are going to raise it the max they can every year and have been for years.
Gavin Newson put out something that homes will need to stay on the market for 45 days before a person who already owns a home or an investment firm can buy. I donít know how that has played out.

The problem is that home owners and investors and governments donít want to slow this down. They all profit off the appreciation and property taxes. The only real fix is dramatically increasing supply of affordable properties and increasing mortgage rates, while creating rental control and limiting investors like Newsom did.
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Irace86.2.0 For This Useful Post:
Capt Spaulding (07-02-2022)
Old 07-02-2022, 01:06 PM   #48
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,368
Thanks: 13,006
Thanked 12,062 Times in 5,399 Posts
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2020BRZtS View Post
I don't think this can happen for everybody. Chances are when you say you remodeled... you mean you remodeled. For someone like me who sits at a computer all day, the level of expertise needed to tackle a whole house remodel would mean paying retail for labor.

I hope the proceeds from your two sales put you in a place that you are mortgage-free on your newest home.

There was a family who moved into my development in 2006 at the top of the market. They got an 80/20 loan so no equity and two mortgage payments out of the gate. By 2010 they were divorced, underwater, and foreclosed. Their cars were repossessed as well but that's a different topic.

Far enough point. The first house I did you probably could have gotten most of with basic homeowner level skills. The second was a gut. This one now is a partial gut. I came out of those two being able to pay off all debt and put a big chunk down on this one with some money to remodel it.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
2020BRZtS (07-02-2022), Wally86 (07-06-2022)
Old 07-02-2022, 01:24 PM   #49
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,368
Thanks: 13,006
Thanked 12,062 Times in 5,399 Posts
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
The Housing Investment Paradox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
Gavin Newson put out something that homes will need to stay on the market for 45 days before a person who already owns a home or an investment firm can buy. I donít know how that has played out.

The problem is that home owners and investors and governments donít want to slow this down. They all profit off the appreciation and property taxes. The only real fix is dramatically increasing supply of affordable properties and increasing mortgage rates, while creating rental control and limiting investors like Newsom did.

Thatís probably overall a good move and slows gentrification of areas. When investors start buying large amounts of property and raising rents they can artificially raise home values and the cycle just spirals, though I am sure you see it in your area.

I think overall itís as much as a cultural issue as it is economic. The drive to have bigger and better is strong. I have a number of friends who maxíd out on what they can afford so they are working to afford their homes. But at least they have a nice place, I guess of course they bought at the peak with the best interest rates so they likely can never refinance into a better payment.

Iím sure you guys will get over my head soon lol
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
Capt Spaulding (07-02-2022), Irace86.2.0 (07-02-2022)
Old 07-02-2022, 02:39 PM   #50
cjd
Senior Member
 
cjd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Drives: 2017 BRZ
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,090
Thanks: 1,131
Thanked 2,653 Times in 1,578 Posts
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
Not really true. Iíve bought two houses in the last 12 years, one for 70k and for 90k. I rented one and lived in the other. Remodeled and sold both and came out with significant amount of profit.
You remodeled, so that changes things a little. Also, timing; It IS possible to come out ahead; long term, that is unstable; I am NOT saying that it can't happen, but that it is unsustainable.
It's probably a much better place to put money than a bank account, and should be much more stable than gambling...er, investing in the market. But, over the long term, if it does much beyond keeping up with inflation, we have problems.
And guess what... we have problems!
__________________
Second chance build... or whatever it is.
cjd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2022, 03:05 PM   #51
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,368
Thanks: 13,006
Thanked 12,062 Times in 5,399 Posts
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
The Housing Investment Paradox

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjd View Post
You remodeled, so that changes things a little. Also, timing; It IS possible to come out ahead; long term, that is unstable; I am NOT saying that it can't happen, but that it is unsustainable.
It's probably a much better place to put money than a bank account, and should be much more stable than gambling...er, investing in the market. But, over the long term, if it does much beyond keeping up with inflation, we have problems.
And guess what... we have problems!

Yes. Not saying you were wrong in your earlier post. Just pointing out itís not necessary true in all instances unless you want to explicitly exclude remodeling. I think itís becoming less and less feasible for the younger generation to have the option to buy a fixer upper.

2020 really exaggerated the issue in my area. Lots of transplants moving here with cash from CA homes and buying where it is much cheaper. The average house went up a crazy amount in a couple years. My buddy bought a rental for 110k 4 years ago and sold it last year for 270k. 750sqft no garage. All he did was replace the cabinets and floor in the living room and repaint it. My 90k house I sold in 2017 for 178k sold again for 220k in 2020, probably around 280-300k now at 855sqft and single car attached garage. It is wild here and affords housing is nowhere to be found.

Home values are exceedingly becoming artificial.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2022, 04:30 PM   #52
Sapphireho
Chicken
 
Sapphireho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Drives: Costco boxer briefs
Location: Caldwell, ID
Posts: 11,669
Thanks: 4,854
Thanked 15,194 Times in 7,421 Posts
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
In San Jose, we would often wonder who has the money to buy a 1600sqft 65 year old house on a 6000sqft lot for 1.3 million.

Every person/group of people that came to look at my house when I sold was Chinese or indian. Guy I sold to couldn't speak english.

Just a fun fact.

BTW, according to Zillow, my house in SJ is now worth over 700k more than I sold for 3 years ago. I don't see any brake lights.
Sapphireho is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sapphireho For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (07-02-2022), soundman98 (07-02-2022)
Old 07-02-2022, 05:00 PM   #53
Irace86.2.0
K Swap Everything
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 6,418
Thanks: 4,706
Thanked 4,906 Times in 2,732 Posts
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
My cousin bought a 950sqft in San Jose for $1.35 million. That was an upgrade from the 830sqft place he had Bought for $860k with his first wife and from the $538k studio apartment he had while he was a bachelor.

Foreign investment in hot markets is very common, especially with the Chinese trying to shell money away from their government. Outside of a panic or government intervention, you are right that their will continue until the market flattens out. Tulip Mania won’t last forever.

The funny thing is people see Bitcoin or NFTs or Tesla stock as inflated and vacuous, not meaning much in real, tangible value, or close to the value it should be, but a million dollar studio in San Jose that would be a mansion anywhere else is just a solid investment that continues to be “worth” more. We all be gambling up in here. Gambling tends to favor the few and the wealthy the most.
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Irace86.2.0 For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (07-02-2022)
Old 07-02-2022, 05:12 PM   #54
Sapphireho
Chicken
 
Sapphireho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Drives: Costco boxer briefs
Location: Caldwell, ID
Posts: 11,669
Thanks: 4,854
Thanked 15,194 Times in 7,421 Posts
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
My cousin bought a 950sqft in San Jose for $1.35 million.
Nuts. My old next door neighbor sold his 1035sqft 3-1 for 1.75 about 6 months ago.

Foreign investment is huge. You get asked after selling a home in SJ, "Chinese or Indian?"
Sapphireho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2022, 02:44 AM   #55
dpfarr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Drives: BRZ ts
Location: SACRAMENTO
Posts: 580
Thanks: 319
Thanked 562 Times in 230 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
There’s another fucked up phenomenon of the wealthy and WFH age. If you displace the service industry in rural areas and they (especially now) cannot afford to commute to work in these ski towns.

So my grandparents built a really nice home a mile or so from the Joshua Tree National park entrance in the 80s. My grandmother’s health required a move and their home sat for months and eventually accepted below their asking. My friends that stayed there after high school were able to purchase homes for <75k in mid aughts before the Great Recession. Effectively, there was little property appreciation in 30 years (1985-2015). The last 7 years, for reasons of Instagram influencers, Airbnb, or whatever the hell happened prices went nuts.

Is that a function of a certain space in time? It’s not a population issue. It’s not like there’s a burgeoning industry warranting immigration.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by dpfarr; 07-03-2022 at 02:12 PM.
dpfarr is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dpfarr For This Useful Post:
Irace86.2.0 (07-03-2022), soundman98 (07-03-2022)
Old 07-03-2022, 07:04 AM   #56
Spuds
The Dictater
 
Spuds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Drives: '13 Red Scion FRS
Location: MD, USA
Posts: 7,898
Thanks: 22,240
Thanked 10,053 Times in 5,054 Posts
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpfarr View Post
Thereís another fucked up phenomenon of the wealthy and WFH age. If you displace the service industry in rural areas and they (especially now) cannot afford to commute to work in these ski towns.

So my grandparents built a really nice home a mile or so from the Joshua Tree National park entrance in the 80s. My grandmotherís health required a move and their home sat for months and eventually accepted below their asking. My friends that stayed there were able to purchase homes for <75k in mid aughts before the Great Recession. Effectively, there was little property appreciation in 30 years (1985-2015). The last 7 years, for reasons of Instagram influencers, Airbnb, or whatever the hell happened prices went nuts.

Is that a function of a certain space in time? Itís not a population issue. Itís not like thereís a burgeoning industry warranting immigration.
It's the covid diaspora. All the renters realizing that renting inside a metropolitan area isn't so great when you are stuck at home.
Spuds is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Spuds For This Useful Post:
Lantanafrs2 (07-03-2022), NoHaveMSG (07-03-2022), soundman98 (07-03-2022), Wally86 (07-06-2022)
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PTE 6466, 1.0 divided A/R, polished comp housing, black ceramic turbine housing slicktop Engine, Exhaust, Bolt-Ons 6 10-17-2015 10:53 PM
63-67 corvette as an investment mike the snake Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 58 11-13-2014 01:17 PM
porsche 918 spyder investment? Rocket.BRZ Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS] 60 08-06-2014 09:18 PM
Are components worth the investment? Cmeehleib5280 Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment 25 03-31-2014 01:27 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2022 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.