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Old 07-01-2022, 01:00 AM   #4201
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I'm running 7K springs with digressive valved shocks. I like it for an all-purpose compromise that's far better than stock! I crank up the shocks for the track. On the street it feels tight and turns like it's on rails.The wife thinks it's a bit harsh, on full soft, but she's used to her 440ix.
It's hard to imagine that "The 8kg upcoming CSG damper rides overall even smoother than the 6kg square CSG Spec Flex A, which rides smoother than stock." is realistic.
“Road has dips. Bumps. Speed bumps. Mid corner road catastrophes. Single wheel bumps. Double wheel bumps”

It’s realistic but it’s not the point, using 8kg springs (>2Hz) on a car driven 99% of the time in the streets/backroads/canyons with street tires or even winter ones depending on the season doesn’t make any sense IMO. The same great damper we’re talking about would control softer springs without problems, taking care of the backroads/canyon part simply stiffening the damping and allowing you to use a wider range of tires.
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Old 07-01-2022, 10:43 AM   #4202
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I know that WRC tarmac rally cars were mostly running spring frequencies lower than 2 Hz, at least in the early-mid 2000s. I think some right around there but most were softer. That was with shocks a couple steps above anything we're talking about here and also sticky tires. Current/recent Group N cars (again with extremely good shocks) are around 2 Hz on tarmac. Meaning...you should probably be aiming a little lower than that.

2 Hz for a BRZ front suspension is around 6 kg/mm springs.

Suspension travel is also very important on these types of roads...we really liked our Ohlins in terms of valving but wanted more travel. If you're going to run relatively soft springs it becomes even more important.

- Andrew
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Old 07-01-2022, 04:14 PM   #4203
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I know that WRC tarmac rally cars were mostly running spring frequencies lower than 2 Hz, at least in the early-mid 2000s. I think some right around there but most were softer. That was with shocks a couple steps above anything we're talking about here and also sticky tires. Current/recent Group N cars (again with extremely good shocks) are around 2 Hz on tarmac. Meaning...you should probably be aiming a little lower than that.

2 Hz for a BRZ front suspension is around 6 kg/mm springs.

Suspension travel is also very important on these types of roads...we really liked our Ohlins in terms of valving but wanted more travel. If you're going to run relatively soft springs it becomes even more important.

- Andrew
How about frequency bias on tarmac?
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Old 07-02-2022, 10:46 AM   #4204
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How about frequency bias on tarmac?
Generally less rear biased on tarmac than it is on gravel...but dependent on car, driver, and team.

- Andrew
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Old 07-07-2022, 01:59 AM   #4205
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Does anyone have any experience regarding tein endura pro plus shocks and how do they compre to bilstein b6/b8?
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Old 07-17-2022, 07:04 PM   #4206
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Do you guys know of any good coilovers that have at least 115mm total stroke both front and rear? Not just ones intended for rally but rather ones that can still go low and just have lots of extension travel. Obviously helper springs would be needed to make it work.

I'd really like suspension that works well driving hard on bad roads and also to keep all tyres on the ground when entering driveways on an angle.
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Old 07-18-2022, 08:56 AM   #4207
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Do you guys know of any good coilovers that have at least 115mm total stroke both front and rear? Not just ones intended for rally but rather ones that can still go low and just have lots of extension travel. Obviously helper springs would be needed to make it work.

I'd really like suspension that works well driving hard on bad roads and also to keep all tyres on the ground when entering driveways on an angle.
Our RCE coilovers (and most KW coilovers) have 142mm total shock travel up front and 108mm in the rear. With the motion ratio that rear is about the same 142mm wheel travel as the front. Bumpstops take up part of that travel.

- Andrew
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Old 07-18-2022, 01:45 PM   #4208
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Our RCE coilovers (and most KW coilovers) have 142mm total shock travel up front and 108mm in the rear. With the motion ratio that rear is about the same 142mm wheel travel as the front. Bumpstops take up part of that travel.

- Andrew
Do you know bump to droop ratio relative to letís say 20mm of lowering? Assuming stock mounts and rear arms used of course.
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Old 07-18-2022, 02:48 PM   #4209
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Roughly 60/40 bump to droop.

- Andrew
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Old 07-18-2022, 04:33 PM   #4210
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Just out of curiosity, does your Tarmac 3 based on 3 ways CS has different numbers due to their hybrid construction? If I’m not wrong they’re monotube on bump side and twin tube on the droop one? Also, their lowering top hats should shift everything allowing lowered heights keeping the same ratio right?
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Old 07-18-2022, 05:07 PM   #4211
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Just out of curiosity, does your Tarmac 3 based on 3 ways CS has different numbers due to their hybrid construction? If Iím not wrong theyíre monotube on bump side and twin tube on the droop one? Also, their lowering top hats should shift everything allowing lowered heights keeping the same ratio right?
Our Tarmac 3s are unfortunately no longer available right now.

Yes lowering top mounts would shift the bump/droop ratio towards bump a little more at the same ride height.

- Andrew
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Old 07-19-2022, 12:44 AM   #4212
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Our RCE coilovers (and most KW coilovers) have 142mm total shock travel up front and 108mm in the rear. With the motion ratio that rear is about the same 142mm wheel travel as the front. Bumpstops take up part of that travel.

- Andrew
That's great. HKS Hipermax S only have 87mm front stroke and 106mm rear stroke according to their spec page. I feel this would be annoying on bad roads and angled driveway entries.
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Old 07-19-2022, 09:02 AM   #4213
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That's great. HKS Hipermax S only have 87mm front stroke and 106mm rear stroke according to their spec page. I feel this would be annoying on bad roads and angled driveway entries.
That would not work for me either.

- Andrew
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Old 07-20-2022, 09:46 AM   #4214
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Our RCE coilovers (and most KW coilovers) have 142mm total shock travel up front and 108mm in the rear. With the motion ratio that rear is about the same 142mm wheel travel as the front. Bumpstops take up part of that travel.

- Andrew
I'm trying to get my head around why the KW/ST coilovers (and presumably the RCE SS1's, though I don't know that for sure) that use the front lowering camber plates have shorter main spring free lengths in the front (170mm vs. 200mm) than those that don't. It seems counterintuitive to me.

If it were just a matter of limiting bump travel, that could be addressed with having the spec for the minimum lower perch position being changed a corresponding amount to match the change in upper perch height, no?

Thinking about it some more while typing this, I suspect it may have something to do with keeping the extension / droop travel of the dampers within range for a given ride height, but that only makes sense if those top mounts result in the damping rod being more extended at rest vs. the stock top mounts for a given ride height, and I can't imagine it would be a 30mm difference (though that magnitude of change in spring length is likely "just because" that's the next shorter step they produce).

Am I on the right track here, or do you have any other input / explanation / theory for why the shorter springs would be used in this application?
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