why im glad the brz doesnt have a turbo.

[turtlefeeder]

hey guys, am I getting the wrong idea about turbo chargers? @Takumi788 and OP says frs/brz NA power is instant but that torque dip is like a turbo lag right? I put my foot down.. rpm goes up but don't feel the car pushing.. so how's this instant? or is it that once the turbo goes on that dip should get worst or my hp goes down below stock torque/hp till turbo is spooled? or... I still get the same as stock but it will be even faster after spool?

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by perryair

so for that reason im glad we didnt get the fa20 with turbo from subaru, it would upset the precision of the car.

now a supercharger, thats a different story. if i can ever save up an extra 6k youd better believe id put a jackson racing or edelbrock sc on my whip..but thats a different post in a different section on a different day..

So you don't want a turbo on the FA20 to not mess up the precision of the car.

And you want a supercharger.

Got it.

[CatDaddysBBQ]

You do, but it's never immediate. Part of his complaint will always still be there.

[turtlefeeder]

Originally Posted by CatDaddysBBQ

You do, but it's never immediate. Part of his complaint will always still be there.

I'm sorry I don't get it are you talking to me? and what does never immediate referring to?

[FX86]

i also believe the new 86 needs a supercharger but not the GT86

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by turtlefeeder

hey guys, am I getting the wrong idea about turbo chargers? @Takumi788 and OP says frs/brz NA power is instant but that torque dip is like a turbo lag right? I put my foot down.. rpm goes up but don't feel the car pushing.. so how's this instant? or is it that once the turbo goes on that dip should get worst or my hp goes down below stock torque/hp till turbo is spooled? or... I still get the same as stock but it will be even faster after spool?

In general you want power to be instant, but you also want to be progressive. In turbo you'll get the instant push you mention, but it is not good for the balance of the car. I made once some changes in my car and the power delivery was much more instant. I was wondering why the factory didn't do this. Afterwards I realized that the car was much more nervous and had the tendency to lose grip. It was fine if you wanted to play, but not nice if you wanted to go faster. Then I reverted the change. Power is not always a good thing and in general people who like it have a tendency to ignore the handling aspect.

[DAEMANO]

Predictable transient response is a thing. Glad the 86 is N/A for now.

I'm hoping that the rumors of a "special hybrid" next gen model actually refer to a 24v-48v electric supercharger to torque fill an 8000 RPM 1.4L - 2.0L i4 lag-free (in the same way it's done win the LaFerrari or in a twin charge arrangement with the Volvo XC90 Drive-E). These are relatively simple devices that require little maintenance, add next to no weight (unlike a traditional SC), and don't introduce heat in the same way either a turbo or S/C does when used as a single induction device.

[Takumi788]

Originally Posted by turtlefeeder

hey guys, am I getting the wrong idea about turbo chargers? @Takumi788 and OP says frs/brz NA power is instant but that torque dip is like a turbo lag right? I put my foot down.. rpm goes up but don't feel the car pushing.. so how's this instant? or is it that once the turbo goes on that dip should get worst or my hp goes down below stock torque/hp till turbo is spooled? or... I still get the same as stock but it will be even faster after spool?

I'm OFT stage 2 tuned with all the supporting bits.....so no more torque dip.

I'm not saying NA is better than FI bc i like HP more than most. I am just saying i like my twin how it is and its perfect for the majority of the tracks that I attend.

[perryair]

Originally Posted by mav1178

So you don't want a turbo on the FA20 to not mess up the precision of the car.

And you want a supercharger.

Got it.

yes, the power is linear that way. is that appropriate enough for you?

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by turtlefeeder

hey guys, am I getting the wrong idea about turbo chargers? Takumi788 and OP says frs/brz NA power is instant but that torque dip is like a turbo lag right? I put my foot down.. rpm goes up but don't feel the car pushing.. so how's this instant? or is it that once the turbo goes on that dip should get worst or my hp goes down below stock torque/hp till turbo is spooled? or... I still get the same as stock but it will be even faster after spool?

Bingo, this person gets it. Car already has what feels like turbo lag...

Though transient response is a whole different thing. It can also be tuned out through several means. Modern turbos a totally different animal from old stuff, and many OEM's don't put in the best they could because of cost, etc. A small modern ball bearing turbo with variable vanes (or equivelent) that's been properly tuned is a whole different ballgame.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

In general you want power to be instant, but you also want to be progressive. In turbo you'll get the instant push you mention, but it is not good for the balance of the car. I made once some changes in my car and the power delivery was much more instant. I was wondering why the factory didn't do this. Afterwards I realized that the car was much more nervous and had the tendency to lose grip. It was fine if you wanted to play, but not nice if you wanted to go faster. Then I reverted the change. Power is not always a good thing and in general people who like it have a tendency to ignore the handling aspect.

It's called your right foot, use it. It's nothing to do about handling.

[retoocs]

My daily driver 05 Legacy GT with a BNR 16G turbo is slow to accelerate below 2500 rpm. But beyond that it just goes. As long as you stay about 3K, it's very predictable.

[perryair]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Bingo, this person gets it. Car already has what feels like turbo lag...

Though transient response is a whole different thing. It can also be tuned out through several means. Modern turbos a totally different animal from old stuff, and many OEM's don't put in the best they could because of cost, etc. A small modern ball bearing turbo with variable vanes (or equivelent) that's been properly tuned is a whole different ballgame.



It's called your right foot, use it. It's nothing to do about handling.

torque dip and turbo spooling is not the same thing - i know that if i give it 50% throttle what i can expect, dip included. if i give the turbo car 50% throttle, i get some type of 'wave' of power of which im not quite sure how much its getting into boost. again, its a lot of fun but its not a ton of predictable. if thats what you like, awesome. i happen to like it less than an na or even a supercharged setup.

[turtlefeeder]

Originally Posted by perryair

torque dip and turbo spooling is not the same thing - i know that if i give it 50% throttle what i can expect, dip included. if i give the turbo car 50% throttle, i get some type of 'wave' of power of which im not quite sure how much its getting into boost. again, its a lot of fun but its not a ton of predictable. if thats what you like, awesome. i happen to like it less than an na or even a supercharged setup.

I get what you mean but this is what I want to know.

if the car has torque dip at 3.5-5k rpm and mph goes up at a certain rate on stock motor. If I add a turbo will the rate of mph get worst or will it only get better with a small turbo

[Pointmutation]

Been driving a turbo car for 14 years (a 1.8T VW). It's all about feel and being used to feathering the throttle. I know how much boost I'm giving it, how to give it, and the power comes exactly when I want it but it's all about being used to the turbo and it's lag. You don't need a boost guage, but it is nice to have (and good for troubleshooting). And even before boost kicks in, the car is still accelerating, just not the head-snapping-back-warp-speed-activated effect until half a second later.

I had the opposite feeling of the OP when I would drive non-turbo cars. Everything feels so jerky, very twitchy throttle response and feels like too much power too soon. Obviously it's not too much power too soon, but it just feels like it. Lol.

For me it took some time getting used to applying throttle on the BRZ smoothly. You treat the throttle differently on an NA than you do with a turbo. More finessing up-down-up-down-up-down motion of the pedal needed on the turbo but you get used to it. The twins' throttle is so much more immediate. Each is different and I like both but now I do prefer my BRZ's NA engine and throttle response. No more vac/boost leaks, blown off hoses, over boost, limp mode. I do miss the turbo's wheeeeeeee pssssshhhhhhhh noise though. Haha.