2nd Gen OEM Oil Cooler On 1st Gen

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by Luns

Yep!



The FA20 timing cover already has the bosses to bolt on a coolant pipe (as used on the Forester XT) and I believe the bosses used for the FA24's coolant pipe are identical. While I didn't actually test putting a bolt into the bosses on my timing cover, I'm pretty sure they're already threaded. Worst case would be that you'd have to tap threads into them yourself, but I don't believe this to be the case.

The only detail I haven't yet nailed down is how to address the ATF port. That port is threaded on the FA24 upper oil pan, and is either plugged off with a blank for MT, or a pipe nipple is screwed in for AT cars. The FA20 MT upper oil pan has threads in that hole and a plug but I believe the threads for the MT plug to be smaller than the FA24 threads (the part numbers for the plug are different), so I don't think the FA24 pipe nipple fits an FA20 pan. The FA20 upper oil pan has the pipe nipple pressed in for AT cars and is considered to be a part of the oil pan rather than a separate part like it is for FA24.

I plan to order the FA20 plug ( 11021AA190 ) to identify what thread it is. I have a hunch it might be 1/4" BSP. Whatever it is, I'm crossing my fingers it's something we can find a 9mm hose barb for. If it is 1/4" BSP, this seems like the perfect part:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/156539268051

Thanks for all that detail!

I did some more searching / digging, and this DIY thread on installing the Forester XT cooler has some info on a fitting for that connection that might help. Sounds like it's an M14x1.5mm fitting, which is kind of tough to find with the correct hose barb, so the OP used two fittings combined. From that thread:

Order these two fittings: http://www.jegs.com/i/Russell/799/670490/10002/-1 <- Russell M14x1.5 to -8AN Male fitting. http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performan...00847/10002/-1 <- JEGS -8AN Female to 1/2 Hose Barb Fitting.

EDIT: ...and I found this on Amazon.ca that might work perfectly: ADLERSPEED M14 M14x1.5 Male Metric to 3/8" (9.5mm) Hose Barb Adapter Fitting Aluminum Blue

EDIT #2: On ADLERSPEED's website, they actually list three hose barb options for M14x1.5 fittings, 3/8", 1/2" and 5/8", so we should be able to make something work. I know in the video that I linked in the first post, he was using 5/16" ID hose, but that was because the throttle body ports are a little smaller.

[Luns]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

Thanks for all that detail!

I did some more searching / digging, and this DIY thread on installing the Forester XT cooler has some info on a fitting for that connection that might help. Sounds like it's an M14x1.5mm fitting, which is kind of tough to find with the correct hose barb, so the OP used two fittings combined. From that thread:

Order these two fittings: http://www.jegs.com/i/Russell/799/670490/10002/-1 <- Russell M14x1.5 to -8AN Male fitting. http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performan...00847/10002/-1 <- JEGS -8AN Female to 1/2 Hose Barb Fitting.

Oh, nice find! I think the importcarparts.uk kit that I linked to earlier may be based directly on this thread. I never made sense of where AN8 entered into the picture, or why there were separate items for "upper sump adaptor" and the hose barb when I figured whatever goes in the sump ought to be the hose barb. Now it's clear that it's two pieces put together where I was expecting one.

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

EDIT: ...and I found this on Amazon.ca that might work perfectly: ADLERSPEED M14 M14x1.5 Male Metric to 3/8" (9.5mm) Hose Barb Adapter Fitting Aluminum Blue

This part looks practically perfect. This is 9.5mm while the OEM hose is 9mm, but people have gotten away with with much worse mismatches, I expect this to work fine. Besides, practically speaking, whatever hose we might find in North America to connect from the coolant pipe to this hose will probably be 3/8", so the mismatch will be at the foot of the pipe instead of at this barb.

I'd prefer this style of barb:

https://www.amazon.sg/Black-Aluminum.../dp/B07MDY97M7

This stretches the hose at the tip of the barb, but the cut end of the hose is on the smaller base diameter and not stressed as much and should be less prone to cracking. However, I have my doubts about how well the O-ring on the M14 end of this part would seal; I think the face sealing washer on the part you found would be superior.

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

EDIT #2: On ADLERSPEED's website, they actually list three hose barb options for M14x1.5 fittings, 3/8", 1/2" and 5/8", so we should be able to make something work. I know in the video that I linked in the first post, he was using 5/16" ID hose, but that was because the throttle body ports are a little smaller.

You're likely right about the smaller hose to match the throttle body ports. The catalog lists a different hose clamp for the throttle body lines than for the oil cooler lines, and I'd expect the amount of heat needed for the throttle body to be small relative to what the oil cooler would work with.

[Tatsu333]

OK - with everything we've discussed so far, I think to do as OEM as possible an install of the 2nd gen oil cooler on a 1st gen using the ATF warmer port as the feed for the oil cooler circuit on my manual-transmission car, this is what I'd need:

From 2nd gen oil cooler parts:

• 21311 / Part # 21311AA220 Engine Oil Cooler. Oil Cooler Complete)
• 21370 / Part # 21370KA001 (Engine Oil Cooler Gasket. Engine Oil Cooler O Ring)
• 21317 / Part # 21317AA070 (Engine Oil Cooler Bolt. Connector Oil Cooler)
• 21328 / Part # 21328AA300 (Engine Oil Cooler Line. Pipe Oil Cooler)
• 99083*A / Part # 99083AA870 (Engine Coolant Hose. Hose Complete Water)
• 99083*B / Part # 99083AA880 or 881 (Engine Coolant Hose. Hose Complete Water)
• 99083*C / Part # 99083AA890 or 891 (Engine Coolant Hose. Hose Complete Water)
• 99083*D / Part # 99083AA900 (Engine Coolant Hose. Hose Complete Water)
• J20601 / Part # 808206010 x 2 (Engine Coolant Bypass Pipe Bolt)

From 2nd gen water pump parts:

• Part # 14050AB511 (Engine Coolant Bypass Hose. Engine Coolant Flange. Engine Coolant Pipe (Inlet) - $91.21 USD on parts.austinsubaru.com)

From Amazon:

• Vibrant Performance Metric to Hose Barb Fittings 11416 (M14x1.5 to 3.8" hose barb fitting) for ATF warmer outlet
• 3/8" heater / coolant hose section with molded 90 degree elbow (like this one; cut to required length) - this might be able to completely replace 99083*A and connect straight from the fitting above to the inlet of the oil cooler pipe, or it might need to be trimmed and joined to 99083*A with a coupler and a couple more hose clamps
• 3/8" hose clamps x9-11 (depending on whether I use a coupler as described above or not)

Definitely a LOT cheaper to go the throttle body route, but I like things really clean and OEM-ish...

Time to start saving up!

[Luns]

Originally Posted by Luns

You're likely right about the smaller hose to match the throttle body ports. The catalog lists a different hose clamp for the throttle body lines than for the oil cooler lines, and I'd expect the amount of heat needed for the throttle body to be small relative to what the oil cooler would work with.

On this note, one thing I'd be interested in seeing is data captures of water/oil temperatures with this setup. The data I've seen in other threads captured before was plumbed by the throttle body loop, which differs in two key ways.

First is that the hoses and extra plumbing of the throttle-body approach would reduce coolant flow by a good bit compared to using OEM routing.

The other is that the throttle body loop is taking (hot) coolant essentially from the radiator input, whereas the ATF warmer port is basically the radiator output. Coolant temperature typically drops 10-20 degrees C through the radiator, so with cooler coolant, the oil temperatures would be kept lower. This may be a drawback rather than benefit while warming up, but for much of warmup, the radiator is bypassed anyway so this is only a difference when the water is up to temperature but the oil isn't quite there yet.

I suppose a third difference would be that the throttle body approach, in cooling the oil would also make the throttle body a little hotter than it otherwise would be. This would increase the intake air temperature but have no idea how much of a difference this would make; I can only hope it's negligible.

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

• 21311 / Part # 21311AA220 Engine Oil Cooler. Oil Cooler Complete)
• 21370 / Part # 21370KA001 (Engine Oil Cooler Gasket. Engine Oil Cooler O Ring)

If I understand correctly, the cooler includes the gasket, so no need to order the gasket separately. It's available separately as a service part to address leaks, and would be a wise idea if using a used cooler, but not needed if buying new.

[makinen]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

Thanks! Yeah - I had looked at that, but it didn't show the port for the ATF warmer and its direction of flow.

In the middle diagram, coolant coming out from 11060, going through ATF cooler, and back to the water pump via 14050 and 99078*B in the bottom diagram.

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by makinen

In the middle diagram, coolant coming out from 11060, going through ATF cooler, and back to the water pump via 14050 and 99078*B in the bottom diagram.

Isn't that showing coolant from the rad going through the thermostat housing (11060) into the water pump? I don't see the outlet port for the ATF cooler/warmer on that diagram at all (which would be outlet port (h) on the image Luns posted here), but logically from the positioning of the lines and the info from Luns' image, I would think that 99078*B would connect from that outlet port (h) TO the ATF cooler via the second line on the AT version of 14050, and then the return line of 14050 is the one that is common to both the MT and AT versions which connects to inlet port (g).

I could totally be wrong though...

[Luns]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

EDIT: I suppose another answer might be to return the other end of the oil cooler circuit to a T mounted in the H616021 hose...? Or is there something I'm forgetting to consider here?

I think it bears mention that this is exactly what makinen shows in the photos shared, just with the 1st gen 99078*A hose rather than 2nd gen H616021. If you have the H616021, that goes with 14050AB511 which basically has the tee built in.

Originally Posted by makinen

In the middle diagram, coolant coming out from 11060, going through ATF cooler, and back to the water pump via 14050 and 99078*B in the bottom diagram.

The connections as you describe are reasonable, but I think your description of directions is reversed. 99078*B is the straight hose segment for the ATF warmer port. This doesn't exist on MT cars, but is the same place I've suggested getting coolant.

However, the photos you show, you have a tee on 99078*A (the hose elbow, not the straight hose). This is an appropriate return line. For supply, 11060 isn't normally an appropriate place; it's on the input side of the water pump. However, your photo with your electric water pump has me confused. I can see the water pump and one elbow as being equivalent to the normal belt driven pump, but there's an additional hose elbow that you're taking coolant from, and I don't know how that's connected. I presume that's (also) the water pump outlet.

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

• 99083*A / Part # 99083AA870 (Engine Coolant Hose. Hose Complete Water)
• 99083*B / Part # 99083AA880 or 881 (Engine Coolant Hose. Hose Complete Water)
• 99083*C / Part # 99083AA890 or 891 (Engine Coolant Hose. Hose Complete Water)
• 99083*D / Part # 99083AA900 (Engine Coolant Hose. Hose Complete Water)

I'm not sure if the *A hose is worth ordering, or if an additional *D might actually do better in its place. But I think the needed bends are gentle enough that just plain hose would likely do just fine.
If you do want a pre-formed elbow to join to 99083*?, the 807609071 or 807609061 may be appropriate.

One thing I'm not sure of though is whether the OEM hose part numbers include sleeving or not. The two hose segments between the oil cooler and pipe are covered in sleeving and are zip-tied together to arrest movement. The two hoses between the pipe and the upper oil pan would probably benefit from the same arrangement. Those hoses don't cross in the normal 2nd gen installation but are (partly) covered in sleeving anyway. For how we would route things, I think it'd be a good idea to have sleeving where the lines cross and zip-tie the lines together there too.

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by Luns

I'm not sure if the *A hose is worth ordering, or if an additional *D might actually do better in its place. But I think the needed bends are gentle enough that just plain hose would likely do just fine.
If you do want a pre-formed elbow to join to 99083*?, the 807609071 or 807609061 may be appropriate.

One thing I'm not sure of though is whether the OEM hose part numbers include sleeving or not. The two hose segments between the oil cooler and pipe are covered in sleeving and are zip-tied together to arrest movement. The two hoses between the pipe and the upper oil pan would probably benefit from the same arrangement. Those hoses don't cross in the normal 2nd gen installation but are (partly) covered in sleeving anyway. For how we would route things, I think it'd be a good idea to have sleeving where the lines cross and zip-tie the lines together there too.

My thinking with the *A hose is to rotate it so the bottom leg faces straight back (or close to it) because it would already be at the right height to line up with a port on the upper oil pan, then couple it to the 90 degree elbow hose coming off of the ATF warmer port. RE: the other OEM hose elbow options, I'm just not sure on the leg length for those, but would definitely go that route if one of those works.

I totally agree on sleeving the hoses if / where they cross.

Also - I updated my parts list post above with a better alternative for the ATF warmer port fitting. Smoother barb fitting, a flat base with a washer, and it's black.

[makinen]

Originally Posted by makinen

In the middle diagram, coolant coming out from 11060, going through ATF cooler, and back to the water pump via 14050 and 99078*B in the bottom diagram.

Oh, my assumption of ATF cooler flow direction was opposite according to the diagram tha @Luns posted.

It seems legit as looking at some upper oil pan pictures.

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by makinen

Attachment 226381

That first picture is a little worrying RE: clearance around the ATF port for a screw-in fitting. It almost looks like the head of the fitting won't clear the casting around the water pump inlet next to it... (or at least that particular fitting)

EDIT: I guess we don't know for sure whether the 2nd gen ATF warmer fitting (Part #21170AA050, which is also a part common to WRXs, Foresters, Imprezas, etc.) fits or not, but it looks like the head of it is much more compact relative to the body. Here's a picture:



I'd guess the hose barb is larger diameter than we need as well, but we could use a reducer union to step the hose down to the correct size.

I'm going to search around and see if I can identify the thread size for that part...

EDIT #2: I've inquired with my local Subaru parts department to see if they can verify whether the 1st gen freeze plug (11021AA190) and 2nd gen freeze plug (11051AA170) have the same diameter / thread pitch, or to order one of each in for me if need be. If they're compatible, then the 2nd gen fitting will fit. I'll update here with what I find out.

[Luns]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

EDIT: I guess we don't know for sure whether the 2nd gen ATF warmer fitting (Part #21170AA050, which is also a part common to WRXs, Foresters, Imprezas, etc.) fits or not, but it looks like the head of it is much more compact relative to the body. Here's a picture:

Putting a ruler to that image and scaling to an 14mm thread diameter, it looks like m14x1.0 rather than m14x1.5. Doing the same for different photos I found for 11021AA190 suggests it's either M14x1.0 or M14x0.7, so I'm not sure how much we should trust any of these pictures. I suspect the one that read as 0.7 may actually be for a different plug that may be M20x1.0; the proportions just didn't look right.

I want to trust the M14x1.5 given by the FXT DIY, but it wouldn't surprise me if that's not actually right. But we do still have differing part numbers for 1st and 2nd gen MT plugs to account for. I think we've gotten as far as circumstantial evidence can get us.

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

EDIT #2: I've inquired with my local Subaru parts department to see if they can verify whether the 1st gen freeze plug (11021AA190) and 2nd gen freeze plug (11051AA170) have the same diameter / thread pitch, or to order one of each in for me if need be. If they're compatible, then the 2nd gen fitting will fit. I'll update here with what I find out.

Look forward to hearing how that goes!

[Tatsu333]

Sadly, zero response from the dealer. I may just look up the corresponding Toyota part #'s and check with the local Toyota dealer instead (they're 10 minutes from my house vs. 45 minutes for the Subaru dealer)...

Meh - I'll just get off my lazy butt and try to actually get someone at the Subaru dealer's parts counter on the phone tomorrow, and make the drive in there if need be. I may as well see if they have the fitting itself to compare with the 1st gen freeze plug, though I'm guessing that's unlikely to be a part in inventory.

[Luns]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

I haven't seen under the hood of a 2nd gen to get a closer look at the setup, and the diagrams online are either really unclear and have drawings that don't match up to pictures I've seen of some of the actual parts (Toyota) or totally non-existent (Subaru - no link because there are no pictures!). It appears there are four hoses and one water pipe used to connect it to the cooling system.

I hadn't looked that closely at your link before given it's a Canadian dealership, but somehow gave it a little more attention today.

I'm astonished to find the Canadian prices for GR86 parts are significantly less than in the US. Subaru prices in the US are generally lower (no surprise) than Toyota, but even with the 30% discount certain online dealers have, the Canadian Toyota dollar prices are lower, and that's even before considering the $CAD to $USD conversion!

I might have to order my parts from a Canadian dealer before my next visit!

Pity that ToyotaOnlinePartsDepot is shutting down though. The prices at Scarborough Toyota are a little higher, but still a better deal than stateside, and local to my visits back.

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by Luns

I hadn't looked that closely at your link before given it's a Canadian dealership, but somehow gave it a little more attention today.

I'm astonished to find the Canadian prices for GR86 parts are significantly less than in the US. Subaru prices in the US are generally lower (no surprise) than Toyota, but even with the 30% discount certain online dealers have, the Canadian Toyota dollar prices are lower, and that's even before considering the $CAD to $USD conversion!

I might have to order my parts from a Canadian dealer before my next visit!

Pity that ToyotaOnlinePartsDepot is shutting down though. The prices at Scarborough Toyota are a little higher, but still a better deal than stateside, and local to my visits back.

I thought the links I posted were at a US Subaru dealer...? Some of the Amazon links were on Amazon.ca.

I'd be shocked if anything was cheaper up here than in the US for auto parts. I usually find things are at least 1/3 cheaper if I order them in the US.