Potential Cause of rumored GR86’s blown engine? Seal packing(RTV) was peeled off

[Kamber]

Originally Posted by ABQautoxer

No it hasn't failed but I've been down this road with other cars. If there is this known defect and the factory won't own up to it, it's easier just to put the car back to stock and move on for me personally. I realize the number is small but the root cause is one that could be affecting a large percentage and we might just not know for awhile. Also, in my specialized circumstance, I could move the mods I bought for the GR86 to my FRS and sell the car for probably more than I bought it for so not really much of a loss at this stage. I do love the car so I'm holding out for a couple more months to see how this plays out.

Seems like a no-brainer to me:
- Profit off flipping your current GR86
- You already have an FRS to hold you over in the mean time
- Buy another ‘23 or ‘24 GR86/BRZ at a later date once you’re confident the issue has been taken seriously and addressed at the factory assembly level, possibly for less than MSRP due to dealerships not having as much of an upper hand in future as they do now due to shifting economic landscapes.

[ABQautoxer]

Originally Posted by Kamber

Seems like a no-brainer to me:
- Buy another ‘23 or ‘24 GR86/BRZ at a later date once you’re confident the issue has been taken seriously and addressed at the factory assembly level, possibly for less than MSRP due to dealerships not having as much of an upper hand in future as they do now due to shifting economic landscapes.

Probably not this one. I'd move to another platform since I'd need an SCCA Street class autox car, just not sure which since I've done most of the appealing ones already.

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by ABQautoxer

No it hasn't failed but I've been down this road with other cars. If there is this known defect and the factory won't own up to it, it's easier just to put the car back to stock and move on for me personally. I realize the number is small but the root cause is one that could be affecting a large percentage and we might just not know for awhile. Also, in my specialized circumstance, I could move the mods I bought for the GR86 to my FRS and sell the car for probably more than I bought it for so not really much of a loss at this stage. I do love the car so I'm holding out for a couple more months to see how this plays out.

Same for me.

I've not had quite the same collection of cars as you, but I legitimately don't know what I'd replace it with. I joke around with some of our mutual friends that I'll just buy a Bronco or something and disappear into the woods, lol

[ABQautoxer]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

Same for me.

I've not had quite the same collection of cars as you, but I legitimately don't know what I'd replace it with. I joke around with some of our mutual friends that I'll just buy a Bronco or something and disappear into the woods, lol

It's funny you say that Ken, I bought a Tundra TRD offroad 4x4 recently...

[otter]

Originally Posted by ABQautoxer

Probably not this one. I'd move to another platform since I'd need an SCCA Street class autox car, just not sure which since I've done most of the appealing ones already.

This is me and I'm too tall to live with an ND2 Miata. Just got out of CAMC and not looking to go back to a fat tire $$$$ class...

[dawsonj87]

Originally Posted by otter

GRM taking a more measured approach with some key extra info I hadn't seen yet about the dealership involved - https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ne...ngine-failure/

This. It is abundantly clear that Toyota was not who denied the claim-- it was a sleazy dealer dealing with a sleazy distributor. Toyota was not involved in this process whatsoever.

As a quality engineer in the manufacturing industry, I have complete confidence that if an issue is truly present (which I believe there probably is), there will be a recall for it to be remedied. I have an incoming 2023 GR86 and I feel very confident in still taking delivery and driving it normally. Seeing all of the media attention this has gotten, I'm very certain that Toyota and Subaru engineers are already working together on figuring this out-- I wouldn't be surprised if it's a major fire-fight in their engineering and manufacturing facilities right now either. This is a serious problem that could potentially boil down to a simple programming fix within the RTV application process-- manufacturers want to quickly fix problems, especially when the solution might be super simple (relatively speaking, of course). We won't know anything until a full root cause analysis is conducted (likely happening right now) and the cause is identified and a fix is settled on. Automotive quality standards are extremely high, and I have spent time working in an IATF 16949 certified plant; this issue will absolutely be identified and solved. Likely remedied for the owner here, too.

I think this was blown out of proportion very quickly.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Petah78

There is really nothing on the market quite like it so no direct replacement even if i sold it (another reason for me to send it harder in the next 5 years).

This is how I feel as well. There's no real alternative for this car in the market (lightweight NA RWD coupe), short of something like a 718 gt4. I'm not going to stress about it. At this point it's a catastrophic, but fairly isolated issue only affecting a handful of owners. I'm sure Subaru and Toyota will take care of those affected. I'll keep an eye on the situation, but in the meantime will just enjoy driving the car!

[pq86]

It’s deeply ironic that the redesigned subaru oil pickup, with its nice cheese grater design, probably allowed this issue to slip by standard QA/QC process. With a EJ style pickup this would have blown up engines in QA and been corrected

[chipmunk]

Originally Posted by dawsonj87

This. It is abundantly clear that Toyota was not who denied the claim-- it was a sleazy dealer dealing with a sleazy distributor. Toyota was not involved in this process whatsoever.

A field tech rep implies that Toyota Corp was represented. Pretty safe to assume that the upper management, PR, etc., were unaware of it, but a field rep, being an employee of Toyota, should mean that it was Toyota who denied the warranty.

[Opie]

First, excure my nuetered reply, there are some things I just can't, won't share....

Just spoke to my contact....lots to unpack
The 2022 BRZ, 5,400 mile engine failure that I said I was acutely aware of in my previous statements. Here is the data from that case - Subaru engineering (in Japan, where the damaged engine was shipped) believes the following occurred based on the oil analysis and engine teardown. They suspect the car ran low on oil due to excessive consumption caused by it's heavy initial use during the break in period as evidenced by the over-rev data, mph data and g-load data in the car. Engine damage showed obvious lack of lubrication, there was no loose sealant noted during engine teardown.

As a follow up, Subaru of America is taking oil samples from 100 random BRZ's that come in to the dealer for their 1st (free) service to analize. They expect data from the oil collection within the next 30 days. They are checking for excess materials in the oil, metals, sealants, etc.

Subaru of America originally imported 9 complete engine assemblies for stock into the United States, they were in stock early this year. They have all been used.
2 were for customer/insurance paid hydro-locked (water ingested) engines.
3 were installed as warranty replacements and are all being activly investigated.
And strangely 4 were sold to Toyota NA (no data on their use, and this is highly unusual since Toyota imports their own parts, including re-boxed Subaru parts. Maybe they didn't expect to need them, maybe they couldn't be supplied by Toyota, no idea).

Subaru has more complete engine assemblies on the way with an expected arrival date of mid-September.

My contact had no info or insight on potential sealant issues, or blockages in the engines. This doesn't mean much, what Subaru may be investigating on a corporate level might not have made it down this far yet, or maybe the contact just wouldn't say...

[keepthemanual911]

Hey Blake- based on your mileage of 13,772 miles on July11, 2022 and your purchase/pick up date of January 2022 you put an average of 1,836 miles per month over 7.5 months.

The break-in for the car is 1000miles (keep it under 4K RPM and play nice with the car).

Based on that average sir you already passed the break-in by mid to end of March. I'm guessing you had already 4600miles on the car by that point. Check your oil change/service records. What they are saying in terms of proof is not correct.

I would ask to see the car data highlighting the "hard driving". ie I would ask for the temperature/RPM for the life of the car. If you can show you stayed within the break-in limits for the first 1000miles you are ok. At that point I would approach organizations that protect consumers against purchasing lemons.

My message is "dont' give up" make more noise.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

My concern is solely with losing warranty on a $30k new car. I'm fully capable and willing to pull the pan and check on things, but if I pull the pan and my pickup was *super* clogged how do I know if the bearings are OK?

I'm fully capable, but not willing. Like you said later, we shouldn't even have to worry about something like that.

Originally Posted by ABQautoxer

No it hasn't failed but I've been down this road with other cars. If there is this known defect and the factory won't own up to it, it's easier just to put the car back to stock and move on for me personally. I realize the number is small but the root cause is one that could be affecting a large percentage and we might just not know for awhile. Also, in my specialized circumstance, I could move the mods I bought for the GR86 to my FRS and sell the car for probably more than I bought it for so not really much of a loss at this stage. I do love the car so I'm holding out for a couple more months to see how this plays out.

I don't have my '23 yet, but really liked my '15 BRZ. To the point, that I already have all my custom spec'd suspension parts here for it. And I'm about to order wheels/tires so they will be here when the car arrives.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Opie

They suspect the car ran low on oil due to excessive consumption caused by it's heavy initial use during the break in period as evidenced by the over-rev data, mph data and g-load data in the car.

Does that mean ECM in the new cars is recording and storing all engine parameter and g-load data? Permanently?

I thought most new cars only recorded the last 5-30 seconds leading up to something like a collision?

[Petah78]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

This is how I feel as well. There's no real alternative for this car in the market (lightweight NA RWD coupe), short of something like a 718 gt4. I'm not going to stress about it. At this point it's a catastrophic, but fairly isolated issue only affecting a handful of owners. I'm sure Subaru and Toyota will take care of those affected. I'll keep an eye on the situation, but in the meantime will just enjoy driving the car!

There is absolutely nothing else. The closest thing is the BMW M2 which i seriously considered but with the used car prices AND not wanting to pay BMW running costs, that was ruled out quickly.

Toyota/Suby really hit it home as a package of the Gen2 car if you factor in price, cost to run, utility, FUN, weight, power, looks. It has FUNCTIONAL vents (cough cough Supra, FK8 CTR), aluminum hood, fenders and roof!! All for $30k. It's really too bad with regards to this slight setback from an assembly stand point. Having said that, i don't think Gen2 owners should sweat just yet. Just make sure you "durability" test it in the next 5 years and have your oil changes done at the dealership. Just keep sending her.