Fuel starvation, can't fill tank to FULL? - Page 3 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

ZDan · 08-02-2021, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

secondary fuel pump on a manual switch that sits on the passenger side, dumping into main pump cup.

Fuel pumps are cheap, and burning one out once a year from starvation is a relatively small price for going faster. It's less than the cost of a single tire.

How difficult is that to implement? Has anyone documented this? If I wing it I *will* f it up :O
Will it fit under stock seats? Is street car...

CSG Mike · 08-02-2021, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZDan

How difficult is that to implement? Has anyone documented this? If I wing it I *will* f it up :O
Will it fit under stock seats? Is street car...

Completely in-tank.

Documented.... not really. Been done? Absolutely.

ZDan · 08-02-2021, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Completely in-tank.
Documented.... not really. Been done? Absolutely.

Hhrrmm...

Do you have any thoughts regarding my getting fuel starvation at more than 7/8 tank after a long straight followed by a 90+ degree *right*-hander at Thompson?

CSG Mike · 08-03-2021, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZDan

Hhrrmm...

Do you have any thoughts regarding my getting fuel starvation at more than 7/8 tank after a long straight followed by a 90+ degree *right*-hander at Thompson?

That shouldn't be happening. Investigate the fuel pressure drop.

ZDan · 08-03-2021, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That shouldn't be happening. Investigate the fuel pressure drop.

I think I might go in and inspect my Verus fuel door installation. I'll probably remove it, at *best* it didn't improve things at all between New Hampshire and Palmer1. At *worst* that little 3d-printed plastic door (NOT the advertised and illustrated aluminum door with steel pins!) is f-ing things up due to either being broken or possibly too lightweight to work properly.

UPDATE: the part is indeed cnc'd aluminum, NOT 3d-printed plastic! So lightweight (due to being massively hogged-out) and painted shiny black plastic with integral pins rather than previous version (?) pressed steel pin, really gave me the impression of being plastic when I installed it! Just removed it and can confirm it's aluminum

Goingnowherefast · 08-03-2021, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZDan

I think I might go in and inspect my Verus fuel door installation. I'll probably remove it, at *best* it didn't improve things at all between New Hampshire and Palmer1. At *worst* that little 3d-printed plastic door (NOT the advertised and illustrated aluminum door with steel pins!) is f-ing things up due to either being broken or possibly too lightweight to work properly.

Wait what? I'm 99.9% sure mine was CNC'd aluminum with steel pins. Purchased within the last 3 months.

ZDan · 08-03-2021, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Wait what? I'm 99.9% sure mine was CNC'd aluminum with steel pins. Purchased within the last 3 months.

They changed over at some point. Here's the plastic part:

The density of PLA plastic is less than half that of aluminum, and it's only 65% more dense than gasoline. Pretty sure I'm gonna remove it and ask for my $$ back.

They show the anodized aluminum one on the Verus website and here's their description:
SPECIFICATIONS
CNC Machined
6061-T6 Aluminum Construction
Anodized Bright-Dip Black
Viton O-Ring for Ethanol and Gasoline Compatibility

Yeah, that is not what I got...

TunaNoCrust · 08-05-2021, 08:50 AM

Dan, you got hosed! I would definitely get my money back, that is way too much money for a PLA printed part!

Talked to some of the GTA guys and they said only starvation at half, and one of them tried the fuel door and it didn't fix it either.

ZDan · 08-05-2021, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TunaNoCrust

Dan, you got hosed! I would definitely get my money back, that is way too much money for a PLA printed part!

I'd be fine with it if it *worked*. But no way I would have even bothered with it, whatever the price, had I known it was plastic.
PLA is only 1.65x denser/heavier than gasoline.
Aluminum is 3.6x denser/heavier than gasoline.
Stainless steel is ~3x denser/heavier than aluminum and IMO would have been the way to go...

Plastic is a stupid material choice for this application for anything other than making the part cheap.

Quote:

Talked to some of the GTA guys and they said only starvation at half, and one of them tried the fuel door and it didn't fix it either.

I think I have an aluminum one on the way to me now. On the fence whether I'll install that when I remove the plastic one or just revert to stock with no door.

ML · 08-05-2021, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

Did you replace the black rubber seal(one time use part) and the green ring? And did you put it together properly? I have yet to meet a twin "expert" who has done it correctly.

You have to ensure the black seal lip isn't hanging over the tank lip before tighting correct? I had a bad seal and replaced it and noticed this as I was putting the lock nut back on. If thats not what you mean can you expand on your comment?

ML · 08-05-2021, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Completely in-tank.

Documented.... not really. Been done? Absolutely.

it has been documented pretty well by the 350/370z community. Same principal.

norcalpb · 08-05-2021, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZDan

They changed over at some point. Here's the plastic part:

The density of PLA plastic is less than half that of aluminum, and it's only 65% more dense than gasoline. Pretty sure I'm gonna remove it and ask for my $$ back.

They show the anodized aluminum one on the Verus website and here's their description:
SPECIFICATIONS
CNC Machined
6061-T6 Aluminum Construction
Anodized Bright-Dip Black
Viton O-Ring for Ethanol and Gasoline Compatibility

Yeah, that is not what I got...

Please keep us updated on what they say! Verus is always revising their parts, but this is the first time I’ve seen them changed for the worse…thank you for doing the math on the density of the part materials.

TunaNoCrust · 08-06-2021, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZDan

PLA is only 1.65x denser/heavier than gasoline.

And that is assuming they are using 100% infill...and if they are using an FDM type printer, the part is not liquid tight anyways.

The GTA guy said his door was plastic as well.

FR-S2GT86 · 08-06-2021, 10:57 AM

@ZDan, has your car by chance been included in the new fuel pump recall? Just a thought.

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08-05-2021, 08:50 AM	#36
TunaNoCrust Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Drives: 86, 981S, RX8, 2500HD, GenesisV8 Location: Palmer Motorsports Posts: 119 Thanks: 82 Thanked 70 Times in 43 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Dan, you got hosed! I would definitely get my money back, that is way too much money for a PLA printed part! Talked to some of the GTA guys and they said only starvation at half, and one of them tried the fuel door and it didn't fix it either.

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