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Old 04-14-2021, 09:44 AM   #1653
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I heard some places were swapping the J&J for Pfizer in some cases, does she have that option or do you have to wait till that becomes an option?
I apparently can't actually type today lol. It was both of us with an appointment at a pharmacy. They only stocked J&J so they are cancelling the appointments. I did get a registration notification from my county health department, so that may be the next route...
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Old 04-14-2021, 10:00 AM   #1654
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See above. Spuds was lecturing the guy about Spuds’ perspectives about Spuds’ deity to another person who he presumes has the same religion without having asked him. Who is being more rude? The guy wanting religion clear of the thread (me) or the guy spouting his dogma to another person as if his religious perspective is more accurate than the other guy’s (Spuds). A secular space is a more accepting space.
Apparently not...

Where did I spout religious dogma? Where did I assert my perspective as more accurate than another? All I did was provide a perspective for consideration. The person I was responding to identified the name they call their higher power, so I was presenting my perspective on the matter in a straightforward way that seemed to be consistent with that. It is their choice to take that to heart or not. It is apparently your choice to reject that thought. That is fine, but you really ought to be a bit more respectful towards others. It is entirely possible to make a contrary point without being insulting.
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Old 04-14-2021, 10:40 AM   #1655
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I think a fair few of us are actually interested in what you’re saying. I genuinely do not understand your perspective as to how the vaccine is not a solution.

Are you aware of the argument for mask and socially distancing from non vaccinated?
I like social distancing with or without covid but self aggrandizing bullshit as part of an enormous social experiment does nothing for me. Every scientist's fall back is "we were working with the data we had at the time". I could go swimming down here and swallow a brain eating bacteria. Would you want to drain every body of water as a result?
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Old 04-14-2021, 10:47 AM   #1656
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After faucis latest comments I'm beginning to reconsider the vaccine entirely. What's the point? Bullshit virtue signaling.
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I like social distancing with or without covid but self aggrandizing bullshit as part of an enormous social experiment does nothing for me. Every scientist's fall back is "we were working with the data we had at the time". I could go swimming down here and swallow a brain eating bacteria. Would you want to drain every body of water as a result?
I think the question remains as to where you saw these comments you are citing in the first quote. Please provide the source of those comments, or retract your assertion they were made.
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Old 04-14-2021, 10:59 AM   #1657
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From the guy who said people are too sensitive comes the rant on how I wasn't sensitive enough...

Fun fact, I'm actually not a particularly religious person, I just happen to have friends and family that are, and that includes practitioners of different faiths, not limited to just christianity. I've had the opportunity to discuss the matter with different people, and I have long since reconciled the compatibility between faith in a higher power and the study of material things. I was just trying to help somebody recognize that.

The world isn't defined by the black and white lines you made in your head and different people interpret the same things differently. That difference is what produces interesting discussions and leads to discovery.
Mine was a joke. Yours was a lecture. Again, whether it was well intentioned, there is a presumptuous nature to a lecture about something that may not be specific to a person’s religion about a subject matter that leaves much up for interpretation, spoken in a way as if someone is an authority on the subject matter when no one knows anything—hence to 45,000 denominations on a single religion. This is one reason why religion is forbidden here.
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Old 04-14-2021, 11:00 AM   #1658
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Doesn't sound like it, man. In fact, you're kinda creating the exact problem people had complained about in other threads. Starting with hostility first then providing facts. Do you do that with your patients at the hospital or in a fitness setting?
Hostile comment? Please quote the hostility.
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Old 04-14-2021, 11:09 AM   #1659
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Something else I feel I need to point out, hopefully without getting into a religious argument is that a large number of these "men [and women] of science" are themselves devoutly religious. I will present this concept for your perusal and then drop the subject.

Science provides greater understanding of what God has created. God gives us many signs, and we see more of them through scientific discovery. In addition, most religions have standing instructions, notionally through a messenger of God, to help your fellow man. So therefore, using the greater understanding gained through science to prevent further human suffering is work ordained by God. Yes, mortals are fallible, we don't know everything God knows, of course, but seeking further understanding of the universe allows us to better emulate the values passed down to us by God and become more perfect followers.
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Apparently not...

Where did I spout religious dogma? Where did I assert my perspective as more accurate than another? All I did was provide a perspective for consideration. The person I was responding to identified the name they call their higher power, so I was presenting my perspective on the matter in a straightforward way that seemed to be consistent with that. It is their choice to take that to heart or not. It is apparently your choice to reject that thought. That is fine, but you really ought to be a bit more respectful towards others. It is entirely possible to make a contrary point without being insulting.
See above. The person said God with a big G and that means you know their denomination or religion enough to feel comfortable giving advice on how they should interpret the relationship of science and God from the perspective of their faith? You used the words God, but fill that in with Allah or Virmu and your comments would be identical, yet obviously misplaced, and yet you fail to see the trouble with providing someone else insight into their religion that you have no idea what it is, and I am disrespectful?
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Old 04-14-2021, 11:23 AM   #1660
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I like social distancing with or without covid but self aggrandizing bullshit as part of an enormous social experiment does nothing for me. Every scientist's fall back is "we were working with the data we had at the time". I could go swimming down here and swallow a brain eating bacteria. Would you want to drain every body of water as a result?
Fortunately, for the sake of your hypothetical, testing for a bacteria in waterways would be a lot easier than doing it in a human populace. As motive organisms our ability to transmit and acquire is high.

As far as the social experiment portion. I’ve read the idea that making the populations perform to government mandates is something like an experiment to understand how they will be easily controlled for future purposes. Is that similar to what you’re referencing to enormous social experiment?
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Old 04-14-2021, 11:28 AM   #1661
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Apparently not...

Where did I spout religious dogma? Where did I assert my perspective as more accurate than another? All I did was provide a perspective for consideration. The person I was responding to identified the name they call their higher power, so I was presenting my perspective on the matter in a straightforward way that seemed to be consistent with that. It is their choice to take that to heart or not. It is apparently your choice to reject that thought. That is fine, but you really ought to be a bit more respectful towards others. It is entirely possible to make a contrary point without being insulting.
For what it's worth, I'm a pastapharian - an ordained minister in the church of her Noodley Goodness the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Now, with that behind us, stay the course on the vaccine. All we can really do in situations like this pandemic is the absolute best we can. We and everyone else deserve nothing less. I'm not directing this at you really - I think you have your pandemic head on straight. A number of folks want, actually demand, definitive, instant, unwavering answers. That is not how anything I've ever done or seen in reputable science works. Science is an iterative process. You fail much more than you succeed. But, it's the best thing we have going.

Getting frustrated and running around embracing irrational expectations will not help. One of the thing I learned road racing (and flying) that has stuck with me for years is - You Go Where You Look. When things go sideways (sometimes literally) focus on where you want to go. Trust your tires (or instruments), don't panic, make the right control inputs and trust the machinery. It may not work - but it's all you have. I think it was Bob Hoover (test and aerobatic pilot) who once said something to the effect that when things go badly sometimes the best you can do is fly the airplane to the scene of the crash. All we can do is do all we can with the best tools we have at our disposal.

What we have now is the science - mysticism will get us nowhere - her Noodley Goodness told me. Trust the science - it may not work out (but probably will if we work with it), but in the current situation it has the highest probability of getting us out of this.
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Old 04-14-2021, 11:44 AM   #1662
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For what it's worth, I'm a pastapharian - an ordained minister in the church of her Noodley Goodness the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Now, with that behind us, stay the course on the vaccine. All we can really do in situations like this pandemic is the absolute best we can. We and everyone else deserve nothing less. I'm not directing this at you really - I think you have your pandemic head on straight. A number of folks want, actually demand, definitive, instant, unwavering answers. That is not how anything I've ever done or seen in reputable science works. Science is an iterative process. You fail much more than you succeed. But, it's the best thing we have going.

Getting frustrated and running around embracing irrational expectations will not help. One of the thing I learned road racing (and flying) that has stuck with me for years is - You Go Where You Look. When things go sideways (sometimes literally) focus on where you want to go. Trust your tires (or instruments), don't panic, make the right control inputs and trust the machinery. It may not work - but it's all you have. I think it was Bob Hoover (test and aerobatic pilot) who once said something to the effect that when things go badly sometimes the best you can do is fly the airplane to the scene of the crash. All we can do is do all we can with the best tools we have at our disposal.

What we have now is the science - mysticism will get us nowhere - her Noodley Goodness told me. Trust the science - it may not work out (but probably will if we work with it), but in the current situation it has the highest probability of getting us out of this.
I personally agree with everything you said, including the pasta stuff.
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Old 04-14-2021, 11:50 AM   #1663
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For what it's worth, I'm a pastapharian - an ordained minister in the church of her Noodley Goodness the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Dang it, I knew it. As a Pizzaterian and Bishop of the Cheesy Meatsa Cathedral I reject your beliefs. Or maybe we could just meet for lunch and discuss our differences.
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Old 04-14-2021, 11:56 AM   #1664
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Sounds like first world problems. We sure do live in spoiled times.

What’s the alternative? Ignoring the data that is compiled? Tarot card readings to predict the future?

Is this the god you were referring to or is your particular flavor of deity have less appendages?




Maybe it is one of these? Do tell.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_health_deities

Here is the plan:

—vaccinate people so the virus doesn’t continue to find new hosts and evolve into more and more strains
—continue to wear masks when out because many people aren’t vaccinated yet, many people aren’t ever planning to get vaccinated, many people could be hosts even if they are vaccinated, many people could not attain immunity even if they were vaccinated, or many people could come into contact with a strain that the vaccine doesn’t protect them from
—ramp up vaccinations to levels where we can vaccinate everyone and potentially provide boosters for early adopters all in a short time to attain herd immunity
—trial herd immunity during the summer/fall, but be cautious by wearing masks this winter to see if we will get seasonal rises when people come indoors and during weather changes like the flu
—if it is endemic and high then possibly continue this until people eventually get vaccinated, or we do this forever, or the special people die off
—if it is endemic and low then develop a long term strategy for vaccines and potentially other prophylactics, but we will likely be fully open without seasonal mask wearing, yet our culture is probably changed enough that many people will mask during seasons or when sick or want to avoid getting sick
This is your hostile comment. You may not view it but that's how it comes off to most on here.

I like you in general, man, but you have a tendency to be only right and never wrong.
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Old 04-14-2021, 11:57 AM   #1665
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Mine was a joke. Yours was a lecture. Again, whether it was well intentioned, there is a presumptuous nature to a lecture about something that may not be specific to a person’s religion about a subject matter that leaves much up for interpretation, spoken in a way as if someone is an authority on the subject matter when no one knows anything—hence to 45,000 denominations on a single religion. This is one reason why religion is forbidden here.
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Hostile comment? Please quote the hostility.
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See above. The person said God with a big G and that means you know their denomination or religion enough to feel comfortable giving advice on how they should interpret the relationship of science and God from the perspective of their faith? You used the words God, but fill that in with Allah or Virmu and your comments would be identical, yet obviously misplaced, and yet you fail to see the trouble with providing someone else insight into their religion that you have no idea what it is, and I am disrespectful?
There is so much hypocrisy and contradiction in just the quoted statements here, I am not entirely sure where to start. And that isn't counting most of the last few pages.

For the record, I was raised Catholic. I do have some personal insight to offer. Additionally, I was not preaching. I was not asserting truth. I was presenting an observation that I gathered for consideration. That is how science progresses isn't it?

Yes, you are being disrespectful.
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Old 04-14-2021, 11:58 AM   #1666
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There is so much hypocrisy and contradiction in just the quoted statements here, I am not entirely sure where to start. And that isn't counting most of the last few pages.

For the record, I was raised Catholic. I do have some personal insight to offer. Additionally, I was not preaching. I was not asserting truth. I was presenting an observation that I gathered for consideration. That is how science progresses isn't it?

Yes, you are being disrespectful.
Agreed. I normally agree with and side on Irace3.0 but, his inability to see his faults can really rub people the wrong way.
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