Helmets

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by dpfarr

It’s weird to admit I put a value on my cognitive functions. Apparently it is worth less than fitting my daily to be complimentary to using hans. There it is.

The reason race cars need HANS devices is the lack of airbags. A car with functioning airbags and seat belts with limiters will protect you better than a HANS device because your face is afforded some crumple zone (the distance between your head and the partially deflated airbag) with a HANS your face crashes into the inside of the helmet and that’s it. You get all the Gs. Yes it will save you from basilar skull fracture, but it is more traumatic than faceplanting into the airbag.

[TylerLieberman]

SA2020 helmets go on sale in October. Most of the organizations I’ve driven with allow up to 10yrs before the helmet is no longer allowed.

Meaning my SA2010 helmet is approaching the end of its days of being allowed at events. I could get a 2015, but I’m just waiting until October to snag a 2020 so I can use it for a good while.

Just some food for thought, in case you aren’t in a time crunch to get a helmet.

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

So everyone tracking a mildly modified street car with functional airbags and head rests needs to run a 4pt harness? Come on.

Originally Posted by Mr.ac

Lol LOLOLOLOLOL
Yeah, you can't just only use a hans system by itself. You need every thing that goes with it. All for what? Running your parade lap just for photo ops?

I'll stick to my new cheap-o snell approved G-force full face helmet

Sigh. Clearly if you're doing Parade laps you don't even need a helmet

Simpson Hybrid S is a 3-point legal HANS device. Not only it stops forward movement, due to strap design it actually had some lateral movement restriction as well.

https://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/...mpson-hybrid-s

Simpson's Hybrid S model is currently the only Frontal Head Restraint proven effective for 3-point harnesses, and it is also FIA and SFI approved.

As for modern airbags and car design, sure. If you want to rely on that go for it. However what we do (track cars) in inherently risky. People have died.

This happened a couple weeks ago. No, driver was NOT wearings a Hybrid S, yes, he's still dealing with neck issues currently and the accident was a month ago. He's hurting. He already ordered a Hybrid S when he can get the nerve to get back out there.

Brake Failure into T10 at Gingerman, he hit 100, I was going into the same corner 92 last weekend. This is a completely stock SS 1LE. I'm not posting the video because it's unlisted for a reason. Here are screenshots he posted.











And here is public video of the car that hit him

[M0nk3y]

I honestly don't understand why safety gear gets such a bad rap and negative connotation here, and why apparently the first response is to laugh and make fun of it. You guys do what you want to do, but I'll go everything about my way to protect myself. Apparently you guys don't realize that a multiple impact, roll scenario does you no good when the airbags are already deflated, if someone else hits you after initial impact, etc etc. Yes, sure...it's rare potentially that it can happen, but it does. Happened last weekend at the track event I was at due to coolant down.

Here's all the "gear" I needed....Stock Seat, Stock Belt. Soooo much fitting to be able to use a HANs

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

I honestly don't understand why safety gear gets such a bad rap and negative connotation here, and why apparently the first response is to laugh and make fun of it. You guys do what you want to do, but I'll go everything about my way to protect myself. Apparently you guys don't realize that a multiple impact, roll scenario does you no good when the airbags are already deflated, if someone else hits you after initial impact, etc etc. Yes, sure...it's rare potentially that it can happen, but it does.

What about fire hazard? Street cars rarely have automated fire suppression systems, and the number of marshals and first respondents is pretty low on a track day (vs. a high tier race). Would you drive in a Nomex suit as well? Why not a roll cage and 5/6 point harness? That would really help with high speed roll overs and multiple impacts (as you correctly stated, airbags, regular seat belts and crumple zones are single use safety items in a street car (although I believe Volvo is doing some work to help with multiple impacts on its cars)).

I think most people here (myself included) take a more realistic cost-benefit analysis on safety equipment. A budget Snell certified helmet will set you back $100-$200. A 3-point harness compatible HANS device costs over $1000. What's the added protection it provides? If a crash is 1% likely per track day, and a HANS is beneficial in preventing/minimizing injury in 20% of casual track day crashes, does it really make sense to spend 10x more on safety equipment for a 0.2% risk? Or greatly reduce the car's DD usability by installing a roll cage and harness (not to mention the cost)?

For a casual track day car that's mostly DD, a helmet is a relatively cheap entry barrier. If tracks started requiring HANS devices I'm sure attendance would drop considerably (although that would be a great thing to offer on lend/rent, much more so than helmets).

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I currently use a Roux helmet because of the built in cooling lines and, radio and ear muffs. My previous helmet was a HJC si-12 and I love it as well.

SI-12 is my favorite and the lightest I've tried. It seems that HJC discontinued the SI-12?

On another note.. for a neck restraint with OEM 3pt seat belts, the Simpson Hybrid S is the only tested option.

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

What about fire hazard? Street cars rarely have automated fire suppression systems, and the number of marshals and first respondents is pretty low on a track day (vs. a high tier race). Would you drive in a Nomex suit as well? Why not a roll cage and 5/6 point harness? That would really help with high speed roll overs and multiple impacts (as you correctly stated, airbags, regular seat belts and crumple zones are single use safety items in a street car (although I believe Volvo is doing some work to help with multiple impacts on its cars)).

I think most people here (myself included) take a more realistic cost-benefit analysis on safety equipment. A budget Snell certified helmet will set you back $100-$200. A 3-point harness compatible HANS device costs over $1000. What's the added protection it provides? If a crash is 1% likely per track day, and a HANS is beneficial in preventing/minimizing injury in 20% of casual track day crashes, does it really make sense to spend 10x more on safety equipment for a 0.2% risk? Or greatly reduce the car's DD usability by installing a roll cage and harness (not to mention the cost)?

For a casual track day car that's mostly DD, a helmet is a relatively cheap entry barrier. If tracks started requiring HANS devices I'm sure attendance would drop considerably (although that would be a great thing to offer on lend/rent, much more so than helmets).

I myself have a bottle in my car. Also all corner workers should have functional bottles. There was a post on 86 Track Cars not to long ago where a driveline failure occurred, grass caught fire and the corner worker's bottle wasn't functional.

I do have a nomex suit, shoes, fire retardant socks, balaclava for champcar. At minimum I wear my gloves. Like you guys, I determine when I wear what. Roll bar is a future investment for me personally.

You must be pretty fortunate to get a 1% track crash rate. I have not seen that low of written-off car rate at the tracks I've been to.

It seems like you have a logical approach to what you deem necessary. That's simply all I ask. As for the others, they were completely unaware such a system exists that can be used with a 3-point belt. If anything, the education and making them aware is all that I wanted.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

You must be pretty fortunate to get a 1% track crash rate. I have not seen that low of written-off car rate at the tracks I've been to.

It would appear that you don't qualify for "an occasional track driver" . I believe most people posting here would go to a track day once or twice a year, potentially in a lead-follow event, never pushing their car to the limit. Thus the risk level is lower, and the cost-benefit of HANS/Nomex/roll cage/harness is just not reasonable.
Once you get more serious and pushing the car more, the level of risk increases and one should re-evaluate the cost-benefit of safety gear.
It's the same as having track brake pads, track only tires, etc. A causal driver can enjoy a lead-follow track day in a stock car and a budget Snell helmet. Once you reach the limitations of the stock setup, it might be worth considering upgrading safety equipment as well.

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

It seems like you have a logical approach to what you deem necessary. That's simply all I ask. As for the others, they were completely unaware such a system exists that can be used with a 3-point belt. If anything, the education and making them aware is all that I wanted.

Amen to that!

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

I honestly don't understand why safety gear gets such a bad rap and negative connotation here, and why apparently the first response is to laugh and make fun of it. You guys do what you want to do, but I'll go everything about my way to protect myself. Apparently you guys don't realize that a multiple impact, roll scenario does you no good when the airbags are already deflated, if someone else hits you after initial impact, etc etc. Yes, sure...it's rare potentially that it can happen, but it does. Happened last weekend at the track event I was at due to coolant down.

Here's all the "gear" I needed....Stock Seat, Stock Belt. Soooo much fitting to be able to use a HANs

Yep.

Free society and people are free to do as they please. If you, as an individual want to run less safety gear, then you accept the associated risks. That’s fine. But I also don’t understand why people put down anybody who wants to have quality safety components.

Everything is a risk analysis, cost v benefit. Fire suppression, HANS etc. some may be deemed necessary for your specific application, and others not so much.

[Opie]

Helmets are on sale now...get the best you can afford. Replacing your head/brain/etc is not cheap...or advisable.

https://winecountrymotorsports.com/

[ML]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I currently use a Roux helmet because of the built in cooling lines and, radio and ear muffs. My previous helmet was a HJC si-12 and I love it as well.

I just got a Roux as well and its awesome!

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

I myself have a bottle in my car. Also all corner workers should have functional bottles. There was a post on 86 Track Cars not to long ago where a driveline failure occurred, grass caught fire and the corner worker's bottle wasn't functional.

I do have a nomex suit, shoes, fire retardant socks, balaclava for champcar. At minimum I wear my gloves. Like you guys, I determine when I wear what. Roll bar is a future investment for me personally.

You must be pretty fortunate to get a 1% track crash rate. I have not seen that low of written-off car rate at the tracks I've been to.

It seems like you have a logical approach to what you deem necessary. That's simply all I ask. As for the others, they were completely unaware such a system exists that can be used with a 3-point belt. If anything, the education and making them aware is all that I wanted.

Question.. do you go to Gridlife? If so that explains the high % you see. I like the guys involved in GL but I will never run at one.

I think the mention of a HNR being part of the overall safety package is because it's best to do everything instead of half assing it, which is exactly what you are doing with stock seats, 3 point belts and a HNR.

I'm a fan of safety gear. My FRS will have a cage, fire suppression, etc before it gets on track. Yet it's slow as fuck and I'll run with less safety gear in my camaro which is not so slow as fuck so I'm definitely not always doing it right either

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by ML

I just got a Roux as well and its awesome!

I've used a Roux for ~4 years now and still enjoy it. The Stilo helmets fit me better but having to add everything on was 1) expensive and 2) just annoying cause I'm lazy.

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Question.. do you go to Gridlife? If so that explains the high % you see. I like the guys involved in GL but I will never run at one.

I think the mention of a HNR being part of the overall safety package is because it's best to do everything instead of half assing it, which is exactly what you are doing with stock seats, 3 point belts and a HNR.

I'm a fan of safety gear. My FRS will have a cage, fire suppression, etc before it gets on track. Yet it's slow as fuck and I'll run with less safety gear in my camaro which is not so slow as fuck so I'm definitely not always doing it right either

Negative. Planned to go to a couple this year and haven't found the time/funds to do so. Been with Chin, 3 Balls, AutoInterest, SCCA TT. Most recent event 2 cars were written off. Chin @ NCM a SS 1LE lost brakes going into 10. And those are just the occurrences I'm aware of when I was close to track side and saw black flags/tow trucks, etc etc.

Won't debate you on the stock seat/belt. However I think it's doing the best of what is available with my current situation. I've done everything to my ability to make myself safe and feel comfortable. Race seats and most likely an autopower roll bar (most likely because I don't know if I'll get a custom one or not) are going in the off season before I start competing in NASA TT5 next year.

I'd argue the FRS can be as fast, or even faster on the track than the SS 1LE. Sure, straight line we all know what will win. However loaded up in a turn where possibility of dropping a wheel/spin/mechanical failure is usually what happens. At NCM T5 my FRS earlier this year was entry speed of 105, apex and exit at 103. If anyone pays attention to Andy Pilgram's videos, you'd realize that is blistering quick.