Drift-Office : Edelbrock E-Force Supercharged!

[Alltezza]

I really don't wanna be that guy but I'm just comparing and trying to wrap my head around this. Basically I been trying to compare JRSC and the Edelbrock SC. What better way to compare these two bad asses than from the same guys who tested them and the same dyno.


Source: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1624913
For the JRSC I don't really know what mods this particular car has
All I can see is the HKS EL header
And for fuel I'm assuming 92.


In this corner we have the E Force.
Test Vehicle - 2013 6MT FRS
Fuel : Chevron 92 Octane Pump
Mods : Rev Works UEL Header, Perrin 2.5 Inch Catback Exhaust


I understand that the JRSC was tuned about a year ago compared to the E Force which was ran and tuned pretty recently. I love both of these kits and I'm seriously stuck between the two(Thanks @CSG Mike), and I can't help but to notice that the power levels are very close. They both have close to the same peak HP and TQ. I been trying to trace the TQ curves with my mouse and idk if it's just me or it's too early in the morning but there TQ curve doesn't seem to be that much different either between the two.

From what I'm seeing they both are very similar in power, now from a buying standpoint.

http://counterspacegarage.com/produc...y-brz-frs.html

The JRSC is 4000

http://counterspacegarage.com/produc...0-brz-frs.html

E Force is 4650

I'm only comparing the TIY kits because I already have the ECUTEK hardware and I'll more than likely just buy a tune from Delicious Tuning. To be fair though if I was to compare the CARB/Factory Tuned kits the difference would be $400. JRSC still being the less expensive one.
Now back to the subject if the power band is basically very similar why would someone like me buy the E Force? Am I missing something here? Was the JRSC power achieved through a catless setup while the E force reached that power with only 1 cat (Stock OP and FP)

[RIP.S2000]

Originally Posted by Alltezza

I really don't wanna be that guy but I'm just comparing and trying to wrap my head around this. Basically I been trying to compare JRSC and the Edelbrock SC. What better way to compare these two bad asses than from the same guys who tested them and the same dyno.


Source: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1624913
For the JRSC I don't really know what mods this particular car has
All I can see is the HKS EL header
And for fuel I'm assuming 92.


In this corner we have the E Force.
Test Vehicle - 2013 6MT FRS
Fuel : Chevron 92 Octane Pump
Mods : Rev Works UEL Header, Perrin 2.5 Inch Catback Exhaust


I understand that the JRSC was tuned about a year ago compared to the E Force which was ran and tuned pretty recently. I love both of these kits and I'm seriously stuck between the two(Thanks @CSG Mike), and I can't help but to notice that the power levels are very close. They both have close to the same peak HP and TQ. I been trying to trace the TQ curves with my mouse and idk if it's just me or it's too early in the morning but there TQ curve doesn't seem to be that much different either between the two.

From what I'm seeing they both are very similar in power, now from a buying standpoint.

http://counterspacegarage.com/produc...y-brz-frs.html

The JRSC is 4000

http://counterspacegarage.com/produc...0-brz-frs.html

E Force is 4650

I'm only comparing the TIY kits because I already have the ECUTEK hardware and I'll more than likely just buy a tune from Delicious Tuning. To be fair though if I was to compare the CARB/Factory Tuned kits the difference would be $400. JRSC still being the less expensive one.
Now back to the subject if the power band is basically very similar why would someone like me buy the E Force? Am I missing something here? Was the JRSC power achieved through a catless setup while the E force reached that power with only 1 cat (Stock OP and FP)

What about the difference in the torque down low?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Alltezza

I really don't wanna be that guy but I'm just comparing and trying to wrap my head around this.

.
.
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I'm only comparing the TIY kits because I already have the ECUTEK hardware and I'll more than likely just buy a tune from Delicious Tuning. To be fair though if I was to compare the CARB/Factory Tuned kits the difference would be $400. JRSC still being the less expensive one.
Now back to the subject if the power band is basically very similar why would someone like me buy the E Force? Am I missing something here? Was the JRSC power achieved through a catless setup while the E force reached that power with only 1 cat (Stock OP and FP)

Really hard to compare direct numbers without lots more info. In general the only thing you can really compare is the shape of the torque curve. See how the Edelbrock is fairly flat below 5500 rpm? See how the Jackson unit tapers off below 5500? It's the nature of a centrifugal supercharger vs. a positive displacement unit. The Jackson dynos look like they're running 10 psi pulleys, I'm not sure what Bob is running on the Edelbrock or how much more headroom that unit has (I suspect it can be run with a smaller pulley but that has yet to be seen). Both are great, just different - the JR supercharger will give you more of a subtle rush to redline when you floor it at 3000 rpm. The Edelbrock unit will probably snap your head back more when you stomp it at 3000 rpm, will feel more like a big displacement motor under the hood. They're both nicely engineered units - to me I'd probably side with the Edelbrock unit for overall packaging and engineering.

[Freeman]

Ok 4.88 final drive to help my auto and toss this on. That should be a fun little weekend lake cruiser

[Alltezza]

Originally Posted by RIP.S2000

What about the difference in the torque down low?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

at 2.5 RPM theres a 5 TQ difference with JRSC actually being higher.

at 3K RPM it looks like they're both sitting at 160 TQ

3.5 - JRSC looks to be at ~173wTQ and E-Force is at 180wTQ

4.0 - JRSC - 180 wTQ with E Force at 195 wTQ

I can go on but at 4.5 E force is still ahead by ~10-15 more TQ. Yeah the E Force has more TQ down low but not by much, or does that small amount of TQ make a huge difference? They're still pretty close together, from looking at both graphs.

[Freeman]

Bob is it possible to do a JRSC overlay with the Edlebrock dyno? Just to help potential buyers out

Assuming you have 2 dynos that have similar mods and fuel

[avishenoy1]

Originally Posted by RIP.S2000

What about the difference in the torque down low?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

Edelbrock has slightly more area under curve from 3-5k RPM for both torque and hp. The Rotrex kits have slightly more area under curve for both torque and hp from 5-7k RPM. However, both rotrex kits drop off significantly at around 6750 while the Edelbrock keeps chugging along up to redline likely due to more efficient liquid to air intercooling.

I personally would prefer the Edelbrock because on the track, reliable power delivery near redline can make a huge difference when coming out of a corner after a downshift.


It would be great to see the Edelbrock numbers added to the SC comparison thread AUC graphs so we can get a more accurate comparison.

[Alltezza]

Originally Posted by avishenoy1

Edelbrock has slightly more area under curve from 3-5k RPM for both torque and hp. The Rotrex kits have slightly more area under curve for both torque and hp from 5-7k RPM. However, both rotrex kits drop off significantly at around 6750 while the Edelbrock keeps chugging along up to redline likely due to more efficient liquid to air intercooling.

I personally would prefer the Edelbrock because on the track, reliable power delivery near redline can make a huge difference when coming out of a corner after a downshift.


It would be great to see the Edelbrock numbers added to the SC comparison thread AUC graphs so we can get a more accurate comparison.

Now this is where I'm confused how does a centrifugal SC have similar power/TQ under the curve? I thought a roots or twin screw are the ones that dominate that area.

[j123ic]

Originally Posted by Alltezza

Now this is where I'm confused how does a centrifugal SC have similar power/TQ under the curve? I thought a roots or twin screw are the ones that dominate that area.

The unit Drift-Office received is currently running the 3.25" supercharger pulley. The E-Force 1320 supercharger is nowhere near its capacity with the 3.25" pulley being used. There's still a 3.00", 2.75", and 2.625" pulley to play with. And even with the 2.625" pulley, there's still room to spin it faster if desired. You'll quickly see that gap between torque curves increase the smaller you go.

How fast can the JRSC spin?

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by Freeman

Bob is it possible to do a JRSC overlay with the Edlebrock dyno? Just to help potential buyers out

Assuming you have 2 dynos that have similar mods and fuel

Originally Posted by Alltezza

Now this is where I'm confused how does a centrifugal SC have similar power/TQ under the curve? I thought a roots or twin screw are the ones that dominate that area.

E-Force standard pulley 91 vs E85


JRSC standard pulley 91 vs E85

Originally Posted by j123ic

The unit Drift-Office received is currently running the 3.25" supercharger pulley. The E-Force 1320 supercharger is nowhere near its capacity with the 3.25" pulley being used. There's still a 3.00", 2.75", and 2.625" pulley to play with. And even with the 2.625" pulley, there's still room to spin it faster if desired. You'll quickly see that gap between torque curves increase the smaller you go.

How fast can the JRSC spin?

High boost pulley puts it at 96% of the C30-94's speed/capacity.

[Freeman]

I'd prefer a direct overlay with fuel and mods noted. Thanks though.

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by Freeman

I'd prefer a direct overlay with fuel and mods noted. Thanks though.

Fuel is noted on both, mods are similar in that each have full headerback exhaust systems and no primary cat as well as the necessary fueling upgrades (owners of each car confirmed on Facebook).

EDIT: Also just realized these two cars were dyno'd at the same shop on the same dyno in California so there should be less variables between the two.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Alltezza

I understand that the JRSC was tuned about a year ago compared to the E Force which was ran and tuned pretty recently. I love both of these kits and I'm seriously stuck between the two(Thanks @CSG Mike), and I can't help but to notice that the power levels are very close. They both have close to the same peak HP and TQ. I been trying to trace the TQ curves with my mouse and idk if it's just me or it's too early in the morning but there TQ curve doesn't seem to be that much different either between the two.

I can help you.



The flatter curve is the Edelbrock, and the steeper curve is the Rotrex kits.

Ultimately, both kits, are limited by the 92 octane fuel. The Edelbrock's strength is manifested down at the lower RPMs, where it can build boost earlier, but the Rotrex's efficiency is manifested up top, where it makes more torque (and power) at the same level of boost.

The peak differences are that the Rotrex kits have about 20 lb/ft (~15hp) less at 3500 RPM, but have about 25 lb/ft (~30hp) more up top at 6500RPM.

I would confidently say that @Drift-Office can probably tune the Rotrex kits to not drop off up top at this point, given their experience.

[BigFatFlip]

Bob @Drift-Office might be a stupid question, but just to be sure, the dyno you have shown on the 2nd post is your custom tune and not the CARB tune, correct? If so, how much more gains did you get over the CARB tune?