Clutch Failure

[Ashybone]

Hey guys, going to need some help for a friend.

My friend bought his FRS a few months after me. Saturday night after going to the club my friend was taking someone home driving down the I-25 Interstate between Bernallio and Albuquerque new mexico. He said he went to downshift the car and the clutch went straight to the floor and stayed there. He said he pulled at the clutch pedal with his foot and it finally came back down. But when He pressed the clutch in again, it was stiff and only engaged half way. He couldn't get it in gear so he rolled to a stop on the side of the free way and called me.

For a little bit of background, I'm a certified mechanic. I've replaced motors in my 3000GT VR4 as well as replacing the transmission and clutch. I've serviced mostly Japanese cars and have been working on them on and off for the last, I don't know, 5-6 years at least...

Well I get there and first thing I do is step on the clutch. Just like he said, it was stiff as hell but it wasn't coming all the way back up. I looked at the clutch master cylinder and the fluid level was below the minimal line. The slave cylinder had a build up of gonk on the push-rod. I cleaned it with my finger to inspect the rod itself. It looked fine. I then tried to move the shifter fork with my hand, and I was able to. I could move the fork back and forth with the palm of my hand. I didn't apply that much pressure, it could just move. I asked my friend if he wanted me to run back to my place and get some brake fluid and see if that made a difference. He wasn't sure if he wanted to do that. So I reminded him about the free towing to the dealership that our cars have. He wanted to do that and he even actually had the paperwork and the phone number (my shits been long gone). We had the car towed to the dealership.

In the morning, I took him to the dealership and we both explained the above. One of the service techs said its not good that the shift fork was able to moved back and forth but that was bout it. They got him into a Corrola and told him they'd look at it. He authorized them to tear it apart and figure out what happened. I over slept this morning so I didn't go to the dealership with him, but he said they showed him the clutch. He said they told him that their going to send pics to the people who make the choice on whether it'll be covered by warranty or not, but the clutch looks like it exploded. "Shards and all kinds of shit" was his description. But he said they told him chances are they won't cover it.

This guy HAS NEVER taken his car onto a track. He's never participated in a track day, He doesn't clutch kick, EVER, he doesn't even drive past 5k rpm. Me on the other hand, I can tell you my car has been in at least 3 drift events, open track day, no stranger to drifting and I've done spirited driving that may or may not have included reving my engine out to just below 7k rpms. My car has 41090 miles while his has about 33k I think. I'm going to try and see/get pictures of the clutch. I also want to inspect the flywheel for any scoring or heat marks.

Do you guys have any ideas or advice for us? I know stealerships are just in it for money but seriously, I don't see how a damn grenaded clutch could be the fault of the driver. He babies the hell out of the car and the clutch went (with no sounds or BOOMS) while on the highway doing regular driving during a down shift. How I ask you, is this his fault?

[raven1231]

If it has 33k, and given that it is a maintenance part, I think he's shit out of luck.

[Eski]

Originally Posted by raven1231

If it has 33k, and given that it is a maintenance part, I think he's shit out of luck.

Hate to say it but this is accurate..

[gramicci101]

I'd have to agree. Dealers don't like replacing wearing parts unless it's obviously a manufacturer defect, and even then they'll argue with you. It'll probably be cheaper to have it towed to your garage and have you swap the clutch for him.

[extrashaky]

There have been a couple of other people on the forum whose clutch discs came apart like that. It doesn't appear to be a very common problem, but it does happen. And not just this car. I had a clutch in my Triumph grenade on me years ago.

If I recall correctly, the other people who have had it happen ended up having to shell out the cash for it, since it's a wear part. Sucks, but it happens.

[humfrz]

hmmm......well, he can try to get it covered.

Yes, clutches can "wear" out ..... (a wear item), but, they don't usually "explode", unless they have been hammered on .....


humfrz

[Ashybone]

I know dealerships don't like replacing wear parts. But in all honesty I just can't comprehend how they can say a grenaded clutch is the fault of the owner. But even then, they'd be able to see damage to the flywheel and other places. Honestly this is bull shit and making me lose respect for all of toyota.

[fika84]

1. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=51754&page=3

2. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...33#post1780333

3. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23231

4. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84867

There are probably more, but those were the ones that I found. 2nd link was replaced under warranty from Toyota.

[HunterGreene]

Just curious, but you didn't mention it--did you guys buy the cars new?

Also, when it comes to clutches, the warranty guys have heard it all. I'd ask them to do all they can to get it covered under warranty (a clutch blowing up after 33k is not normal), but not expect a positive result. I am assuming the dealership is getting a regional rep to come in and look at it? Thats what happened when the 5th gear synchro went on my tC, and it ended up being covered under warranty because of that (Toyota was initially going to deny it).

There are other things that would indicate the car has been hammered on, however. Worn tires, brakes worn, etc. If they assume that it has been abused, then those items should be worn down as well. If your friend drives like a old man as you allege, those items won't be nearly as worn as the expect and would lend creedence to a part defect. Those are also the easiest things to inspect without tearing the engine apart.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Ashybone

I know dealerships don't like replacing wear parts. But in all honesty I just can't comprehend how they can say a grenaded clutch is the fault of the owner.

It's not that they're the fault of the owner. It's that the clutch is a wear part. It wears out. Then it's up to you to replace it.

Everyone likes to assume that all the wear on a clutch happens on the clutch surface, but that's not entirely accurate. The springs in the disc are wear items also. They flex. They fatigue. They break. If one spring fails so that it's not dampening the force on the clutch, the whole thing can come apart.

Should it have lasted longer? Maybe. Probably. But it doesn't matter because there's no guaranteed life.

At least it's a relatively simple procedure. To swap the clutch on my dad's MGB, the engine had to come out. We thought the Triumph was easy because we only had to remove the interior to get the transmission out. I haven't done the BRZ yet, but my understanding is that it's cake compared to what I'm used to.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by fika84

1. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=51754&page=3

2. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...33#post1780333

3. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23231

4. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84867

There are probably more, but those were the ones that I found. None of them were covered under warranty.

Your second link says in the post that the clutch was replaced under warranty.

[fika84]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Your second link says in the post that the clutch was replaced under warranty.

Touche!! Thanks for pointing that out. I quickly just grabbed them and skimmed through em. Thanks @HunterGreene .. always keeping me honest.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by fika84

Touche!! Thanks for pointing that out. I quickly just grabbed them and skimmed through em. Thanks @HunterGreene .. always keeping me honest.

Thank God its not just my job. Glad to help

[Ashybone]

Hey guys, sorry for the lack of updates. I was out of town on vacation with a group of friends including the guy that this thread is about. I was able to stop by the dealership and snap some pictures. I'll be posting them later tonight.

The so as most of yall said, the dealership denied the warranty on this. PS @HunterGreene thank you so much for the advice in regards to the other points of wear. My friend is still on his factory tires and yes we did buy them brand new off the lot. I'm not 100% sure what's going to happen next because when I went to the dealership today, the service tech told me that my friend told them to order the parts. When I left I called my friend and he told me he didn't tell them anything like that. So I'm just going to let them figure it out.

This whole situation got me granny shifting the hell outta my car now even though my car has been through much much more than his could have even imagine.