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Old 02-10-2021, 12:03 PM   #155
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Well shit... I've been under the rock then. Thanks for the vid!
Interesting, hadn't seen the Ariya. In the end, I'm just not into the crossover/SUV look as my Daily Driver, and I'm not ready to have my "family road trip" car be electric.
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Old 02-10-2021, 12:09 PM   #156
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Interesting, hadn't seen the Ariya. In the end, I'm just not into the crossover/SUV look as my Daily Driver, and I'm not ready to have my "family road trip" car be electric.
I have heard of Ariya last year... but didn't really think of it til now.

I'm not really into CUV/SUV, but I might need daily drive back and forth to work (36~40 miles round trip) PLUS I need back seat for baby (which due next month). So to check off those 2 requirements, EV CUV/SUV was looking nice.

As for my BRZ, I'll still be driving that around. Just don't wanna add pointless mileage from commute to work.
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Old 02-10-2021, 12:22 PM   #157
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As for my BRZ, I'll still be driving that around. Just don't wanna add pointless mileage from commute to work.
90% of the 180,000 miles on my FRS are commuting miles, but I wouldn't say they were pointless, I enjoyed them all!
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Old 02-10-2021, 12:30 PM   #158
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90% of the 180,000 miles on my FRS are commuting miles, but I wouldn't say they were pointless, I enjoyed them all!
I love driving my BRZ and enjoy every sec of it... BUT I feel that commuting to work mileage have a bit more pointless feel to it. I don't mind driving to work. Just I rather drive my BRZ to other things like date w my wife or just drive around to clear my head.
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Old 02-11-2021, 05:13 PM   #159
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I'm not really into CUV/SUV, but I might need daily drive back and forth to work (36~40 miles round trip) PLUS I need back seat for baby (which due next month). So to check off those 2 requirements, EV CUV/SUV was looking nice.
I'm in a similar position. I'm looking to replace my GT86 with a Giulia QV but the family E-Pace will get replace next year and it makes sense to go electric. I need something as big, or ideally larger than the Jag. EVs work as they can be more accommodating without being larger in size. So far, I think the Mach-E is OK, but can't quite see me wanting to buy one (or indeed the wife, who's car it would "be") and the only cars that seem to fit the "not too expensive or too small" categories are:
- VW ID4
- Nissan Ariya

And that's about it at the moment, or any others that appear on the horizon, so it may well end up being a PHEV as there's way more options and for most part you get the daily running costs - not sure how many PHEVs you get there though. I think it's daft that the Model 3 isn't a proper hatch, which is a let down for a family car, perhaps as it would take sales from the Model S. Plus I echo the sentiments that I just feel uninspired despite their lead in the tech field. I'd quite like a Taycan or the new E-Tron GT and hopefully they depreciate enough that they are withing budget quite quickly.
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Old 02-11-2021, 05:22 PM   #160
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I and the only cars that seem to fit the "not too expensive or too small" categories are:
- VW ID4
- Nissan Ariya.
It will be interesting to see if the new Bolt EUV being announced on the 15th is in that same size range.

I have a buddy with an ID4 on order that he's about to cancel because they won't give him a build date and it's been months.
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Old 02-11-2021, 05:29 PM   #161
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I'm in a similar position. I'm looking to replace my GT86 with a Giulia QV but the family E-Pace will get replace next year and it makes sense to go electric. I need something as big, or ideally larger than the Jag. EVs work as they can be more accommodating without being larger in size. So far, I think the Mach-E is OK, but can't quite see me wanting to buy one (or indeed the wife, who's car it would "be") and the only cars that seem to fit the "not too expensive or too small" categories are:
- VW ID4
- Nissan Ariya

And that's about it at the moment, or any others that appear on the horizon, so it may well end up being a PHEV as there's way more options and for most part you get the daily running costs - not sure how many PHEVs you get there though. I think it's daft that the Model 3 isn't a proper hatch, which is a let down for a family car, perhaps as it would take sales from the Model S. Plus I echo the sentiments that I just feel uninspired despite their lead in the tech field. I'd quite like a Taycan or the new E-Tron GT and hopefully they depreciate enough that they are withing budget quite quickly.
I'm surprised you're not looking into Rivian. My buddy who was in the same boat (86 > Giulia) put pre-order for Rivian and he can't wait to get a hand on it.

Top 3 EV I'm looking at are Volvo XC40 Rechage, Ford Mustang Mach-E & Nissan Ariya now. Thought about used Audi e-Tron... but used price of e-Tron, I can get new Mach-E or Recharge.
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Old 02-11-2021, 05:43 PM   #162
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I'm surprised you're not looking into Rivian. My buddy who was in the same boat (86 > Giulia) put pre-order for Rivian and he can't wait to get a hand on it.

Top 3 EV I'm looking at are Volvo XC40 Rechage, Ford Mustang Mach-E & Nissan Ariya now. Thought about used Audi e-Tron... but used price of e-Tron, I can get new Mach-E or Recharge.
Neither of the standard e-Tron models appealed, as you said, due to cost and being essentially ICE chassis converted, which loses out on one of the benefits of losing an engine. Not sure we get the Rivian here, certainly not seen much, and the QV wouldn't be new, so not sure how costs would compare (also keen to have a couple of large engined cars before the move to full EV - being in the UK we tend to drive 4 bangers so a crazy V6 and/or V8 for my fun car would be a good hurrah). I think the XC40 would be too small, it's comparable to the E-Pace I think and I wish that we'd gone slightly larger for buggies and bags etc. Is the recharge not a PHEV? If so, I'd worry about losing more space to the batteries. I love a Volvo but I would be looking at a XC60 or even a V60.
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Old 02-11-2021, 06:00 PM   #163
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Neither of the standard e-Tron models appealed, as you said, due to cost and being essentially ICE chassis converted, which loses out on one of the benefits of losing an engine. Not sure we get the Rivian here, certainly not seen much, and the QV wouldn't be new, so not sure how costs would compare (also keen to have a couple of large engined cars before the move to full EV - being in the UK we tend to drive 4 bangers so a crazy V6 and/or V8 for my fun car would be a good hurrah). I think the XC40 would be too small, it's comparable to the E-Pace I think and I wish that we'd gone slightly larger for buggies and bags etc. Is the recharge not a PHEV? If so, I'd worry about losing more space to the batteries. I love a Volvo but I would be looking at a XC60 or even a V60.
XC40 Recharge is full EV, it's pretty much Polestar 2 EV tech w XC40 chassis. Volvo PHEV, you have XC90 & XC60 option, but like you said, you might loose a bit of space to the batteries.
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Old 02-11-2021, 06:16 PM   #164
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XC40 Recharge is full EV, it's pretty much Polestar 2 EV tech w XC40 chassis. Volvo PHEV, you have XC90 & XC60 option, but like you said, you might loose a bit of space to the batteries.
Ah, here it's available in PHEV and EV. Still it's using a ICE base chassis so I expect it to be somewhat compromised. I quite like the Polestar actually, if they did one similar size to a V60 I'd be all over it.
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Old 02-11-2021, 06:52 PM   #165
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90% of the 180,000 miles on my FRS are commuting miles, but I wouldn't say they were pointless, I enjoyed them all!
That is exactly the point. A car is meant to be driven. Especially a sports car. It's not meant to be looked at like a painting, or 'saved' for something. Drive it.

Doubly especially the BRZ/86. These are inexpensive cars. It's not some insane multi-million dollar collectible that will depreciate $10 for every mile driven or each paint chip.

Good for you for using your car for exactly what it was meant for: to have fun in.
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Old 02-11-2021, 09:35 PM   #166
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That is exactly the point. A car is meant to be driven. Especially a sports car. It's not meant to be looked at like a painting, or 'saved' for something. Drive it.

Doubly especially the BRZ/86. These are inexpensive cars. It's not some insane multi-million dollar collectible that will depreciate $10 for every mile driven or each paint chip.

Good for you for using your car for exactly what it was meant for: to have fun in.
I agree with you... BUT at the same time, thatís not always the case for everyone who own it & it was build as a blank canvas for every owner. Nothing wrong w driving til engine blows up. Nothing wrongs w not driving. Nothing wrong w tracking it. Nothing wrong w rallying through the snow. Nothing wrong w keeping in the garage. Nothing wrong w putting a snail in the engine. Nothing wrong w keeping it NA. It keeps going...

Thatís why it make this car great.
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Old 02-12-2021, 09:49 AM   #167
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I agree with you... BUT at the same time, thatís not always the case for everyone who own it & it was build as a blank canvas for every owner. Nothing wrong w driving til engine blows up. Nothing wrongs w not driving. Nothing wrong w tracking it. Nothing wrong w rallying through the snow. Nothing wrong w keeping in the garage. Nothing wrong w putting a snail in the engine. Nothing wrong w keeping it NA. It keeps going...

Thatís why it make this car great.
You're absolutely right. The point is to enjoy the car, whatever that means to the owner. Most of the things you mentioned involve actual driving, whether on the street, track, snow, whatever.

I fairly regularly see nice, fun cars for sale with few miles. Especially big-buck exotics and 'collectibles' on Bring-A-Trailer, but often just nice cars like the Honda S2000 and CRX Si. While the new owner is probably thrilled with the find of an 'almost new' old car, I think it's sad that someone would own something that much fun and not drive it.

I used to be guilty of that myself. When I first bought a 2006 S2000 (a car I deeply regret selling), I didn't drive it that much. One day at a Cars & Coffee, someone remarked on the low mileage on the car and quipped how someday, someone was going to get a great car, and it hit me: what am I saving the car for? By not driving it, all I was doing was 'saving' the car for the next owner. At that moment (already being in my 50's at the time), I decided life was too short for baseless, ridiculous self-denial. I didn't want to 'save' the car for some stranger who would someday be the next owner. I wanted to be that person, to drive it myself and have fun with the car the way it was meant to be driven. So I did.

I realize many people buy cars as investments. On BaT some of the rich and famous glitterati (Silicon Valley tech bros, hedge fund managers, venture capitalists, etc.) comment on the return on investment possibilities with a particular car. They think they're being so witty when they quip about how unlike their stock portfolios, they can take the car out occasionally and drive it. That's their choice, and all else being equal, I guess I too would rather have something interesting in the garage over seeing numbers on a spreadsheet (if I had the garage space and throwaway money to do things like that)(though I wonder what the real 'return on investment' is after considering insurance, maintenance, etc. costs).

But I still think it's a shame to not use a car for what it was intended for. Especially with something like the BRZ that will never be 'investment grade' or a 'collectible' (except maybe long after I'm gone, in the next century when any surviving relic of the internal combustion era might be 'worth something'). The BRZ is an inexpensive car. It's not a low-mileage original 1969 Dodge Daytona whose value will go down with every mile driven. But the grin on my face sure gets wider with every mile.
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Old 02-12-2021, 02:22 PM   #168
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. . . The BRZ is an inexpensive car. It's not a low-mileage original 1969 Dodge Daytona whose value will go down with every mile driven. But the grin on my face sure gets wider with every mile.
I postulate the Dodge Daytona has entered (or is at least near) the category of cars that Everyday Driver describe as always having value regardless of what happens to it. They usually discuss exotics whose value exist in the VIN regardless of how many times it has been rebodied, but I’d say rare American Muscle cars are already in the same category; the VIN is the value.

I think the value of the Daytona will keep increasing regardless of use, but the BRZ/FRS/86 value depends on lack of use.

Then again, 40 years ago my dad and my uncle were jumping Shelbys over barns, flipping them on their roof and torching the springs to pull rear-end housings, and otherwise scraping/mangling/destroying what would now be many millions of dollars in cars because they had almost no value at the time and nobody imagined they’d be widely desirable again. So who knows what the future holds for the Twins.

Everyone should enjoy their car in any way they see fit, unless their enjoyment entails parking the car in a field/barn/on blocks and letting it melt away into oblivion while refusing to sell it.
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