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View Poll Results: Which jab have you had?
Pfizer 11 42.31%
Moderna 8 30.77%
Johnson & Johnson 2 7.69%
AstraZeneca 2 7.69%
Novavax 0 0%
Sputnik 1 3.85%
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Old 01-16-2021, 12:50 PM   #659
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Unfortunately, we live in a society that places a financial value on everything, including a human life. ,,,,

But when a person dies, it's forever. They can never be brought back. I would hope that would matter more, and the priority should be to save as many lives as possible. Sadly, the culture, society, and government in the U.S. doesn't think that way (though maybe there's a hope of a bit more compassion under the Biden administration).
I understand the philosophical direction of your statements about the loss of an individual and the contributions that individual makes. With that I agree.

What I can't quite wrap my head around is why you think the monetary value put on saving a human life is somehow unique to the United States. It is not.

Since the dawn of man, some lives have been valued more than others, or there has been a limit to the extremes that mankind would go to to save a specific life. Even in countries where they have socialized medicine there is a limit to what will be done, and priorities set based on accepted (although maybe not acceptable) standards. Nearly all of those are set by the cost, or the rationing, of care.
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Old 01-16-2021, 01:49 PM   #660
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The super athletic female friend from high school who I’ve mentioned in here before just got her 2nd dose. She’s a nurse at one of the best hospitals in California. She told me this dose has gone better than the first. But that she knows of people who’ve actually had to go to the hospital after their 2nd one.

I’m wondering if the reason she had an easy second dose is because she contracted COVID last year pretty badly for a couple weeks.
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Old 01-16-2021, 02:18 PM   #661
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What I can't quite wrap my head around is why you think the monetary value put on saving a human life is somehow unique to the United States. It is not.
I don't think he meant that it is exclusive to the U.S., just that it is our society of reference.
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Old 01-16-2021, 04:10 PM   #662
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What I can't quite wrap my head around is why you think the monetary value put on saving a human life is somehow unique to the United States. It is not.
I certainly don't think and didn't mean to imply that placing a monetary value on a life is unique to the U.S. Of course it isn't, and again of course, everything must ultimately be 'rationed' somehow. If every (or any) resource was absolutely unlimited, there would be no need for an economy. Everyone could always get anything and everything they needed or wanted, for free. As @Ultramaroon said, it's just my (and for many people here, our) frame of reference.

That said, it's taken to an extreme in this country. For example (as has been extensively discussed), almost every other country has a national healthcare system, because it's considered a basic right and not a privilege only for those who can afford it. Likewise, when EU countries set prices for drugs, it's based on the therapeutic benefit those drugs offer. The greater the benefit, the higher the price the company receives - which is paid for by the national healthcare plan. Drug prices are regulated, to provide companies a fair and reasonable profit as reward for taking risk and compensation for making the investments needed to produce them - but also in recognition of the people's right to healthcare. It's not left to the 'free market', with the result that the US has - by far - the very most expensive healthcare in the world, but far from the best.

It's most plainly evident in the responses of different peoples to the pandemic. While many countries are having a rough time of it, and of course there are people in many places complaining, whining, and fighting against necessary, life-saving restrictions, Americans have truly perfected the art of acting against our own best interests.

I can't offer specific hard 'data' at my fingertips, but I would bet lunacies such as refusing to wear masks, and engaging in risky, contagion-spreading activities (see: January 6, Washington DC) are higher in the US than in most other countries. The best evidence for that is the infection rate. The US, with 4% of the world's population, has 25% of the world's cases of COVID-19. We're number 1. That's not due to bad luck. It's because of selfishness, ignorance, impatience, intolerance, and stupidity, both by our government leaders, and by us, we the people.

I think that's in part because as a country, we've led a relatively spoiled, coddled life. Of course there are people here who have and continue to suffer greatly. Financial hardships, discrimination, prejudice, and other major problems. There's a significant element of intolerance in our culture (again, see: January 6, Washington DC; the race riots of the 1960's; or just most of our history). But by and large, relative to other countries, the recent history of this country (in the memory of those alive today) has been relatively easy.

See my previous post on my family's personal experiences living in Europe in the 1930s and 1940's. Europe went through two world wars in the last century. In WW2, around 50 million Europeans were killed. That suffering and those deaths are in the living memories of many people alive today with a European heritage (albeit the neo-Nazi movement is distressingly active in Europe as well, seemingly forgetting those horrors).

When people go through that kind of protracted, unimaginable nightmare, many seem to learn to care about, support, and help each other. Not all of them of course, but many. Because they have to. I think an element of that gets instilled in the culture, which carries on today in a greater willingness to do what's right for the good of everyone and not just selfishly for yourself. No one in my family would have survived WW2 (and I wouldn't be here) if it wasn't for the selfless sacrifices of other people, and likewise what my family members did for others in the same situation at that time.

The US hasn't experienced that on the same scale. Of course this country has had it's share of problems and disasters. Widespread, institutional bigotry and prejudice, that is sadly still with us. 9/11. But that element of self-sacrifice, of doing what's right for everyone, of genuinely caring for other people, doesn't seem as strong here as in many other countries. As evidenced by all the imbeciles refusing to wear masks or put up with any perceived inconveniences or intrusions on what they consider to be their 'constitutional rights'.

I regularly see stories of people on US plane flights refusing to wear masks, making a scene, forcing the flight to be cancelled and exposing many other people to infection. Somehow, you don't see as many stories like this in other countries.

https://viewfromthewing.com/passenge...acial-epithet/

https://www.kxan.com/news/video-woma...at-passengers/

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/air...-on-plane.html

We, individually and as a country, can do this. We can take this path, make these choices, take (or not take) certain actions. But there is a price to be paid. We are paying for it with a horrendous pandemic infection rate, illnesses, and deaths. The unfortunate reality is that as long as we keep acting this way, vaccines or not, this country will never be completely rid of the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic.
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Old 01-16-2021, 04:25 PM   #663
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The US, with 4% of the world's population, has 25% of the world's cases of COVID-19. We're number 1. That's not due to bad luck. It's because of selfishness, ignorance, impatience, intolerance, and stupidity, both by our government leaders, and by us, we the people.
Similar to our energy usage? o_0
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Old 01-17-2021, 12:16 PM   #664
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Similar to our energy usage? o_0
LOL, the numbers are strikingly similar, but I don't think there's any direct connection or causation between energy usage and pandemic cases (except that maybe both are related to selfishness; selfishness in using more than our share of the world's energy, and the karma of of also having a similar proportion of infections).
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Old 01-17-2021, 12:40 PM   #665
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LOL, the numbers are strikingly similar, but I don't think there's any direct connection or causation between energy usage and pandemic cases (except that maybe both are related to selfishness; selfishness in using more than our share of the world's energy, and the karma of of also having a similar proportion of infections).
OT AF but...

It's interesting to see what countries use more energy per capita. Turns out developed nations with extreme heat and cold tend to be high on the list.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ty_consumption
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Old 01-17-2021, 02:04 PM   #666
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(except that maybe both are related to selfishness; selfishness in using more than our share of the world's energy, and the karma of of also having a similar proportion of infections).
Yeah. The comparison was a bit of a stretch but that's more what I was thinking. We're just soft and comfy compared to most of the rest of the world. Our cultural sense of entitlement is a natural outcome of not having experienced any widespread hardship in a few generations. Everyone needs a good bitch slap now and then.
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Old 01-17-2021, 02:15 PM   #667
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i always tell new drivers that their first car should always be a rotting mess with problems.

more and more people are looking at me weird for even saying that. and then i remind them that my first car lost heat halfway through the time i owned it, never had a/c, the windows leaked, it dripped oil, and trans fluid everywhere it went, sometimes got so low on trans fluid to the point that it wouldn't shift anymore.

very quickly learn to appreciate that the vehicle simply starts and moves every time after all that. i'm still not used to using the a/c in cars...
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Old 01-17-2021, 02:27 PM   #668
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i always tell new drivers that their first car should always be a rotting mess with problems.
.
Geeze man, why don't you just wish constipation on them too already.
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Old 01-17-2021, 02:39 PM   #669
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Geeze man, why don't you just wish constipation on them too already.
teaches them to appreciate a good poopin'!
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Old 01-17-2021, 02:42 PM   #670
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teaches them to appreciate a good poopin'!
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Old 01-17-2021, 04:21 PM   #671
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/wap.bus...1600867_1.html

Anyone see this article yet?
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Old 01-17-2021, 04:54 PM   #672
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i think the US media has had enough going on that something happening in norway is of less importance right now.

china should come back when people aren't rioting in our capitol, and then we can talk.
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