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View Poll Results: Which jab have you had?
Pfizer 17 43.59%
Moderna 11 28.21%
Johnson & Johnson 3 7.69%
AstraZeneca 3 7.69%
Novavax 0 0%
Sputnik 1 2.56%
Convidecia 0 0%
Homebrew with a big dose of something special 4 10.26%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-20-2020, 07:46 PM   #365
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I'm a bit skeptical of the Pfizer product. The specialized freezers in pharmacies, and the instructions to keep it at -70 weird me out.
I've thought about this as well, and had visions of vials of vaccine sitting out on a table at room temperature for long enough to degrade.

However, thinking about it more seriously, as @Irace86 pointed out there are such careful quality controls in the chain that for many reasons it's unlikely to be a problem. The demand for the vaccine will be so much greater than the supply for some time to come. It's unlikely vials will be left out at room temperatures for long enough to cause concern - any available vaccine is likely to find its way into people's arms as soon as possible.

We should be so lucky as to have such problems as so much vaccine kicking around that it's piling up on tables. Not gonna happen.

The recently approved Moderna vaccine has much more customary regular freezer and refrigerated storage requirements.
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Old 12-20-2020, 08:03 PM   #366
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How many of you are actually thinking about getting the vaccine as soon as you can.

I'm a bit skeptical of the Pfizer product. The specialized freezers in pharmacies, and the instructions to keep it at -70 weird me out. You're telling me there is a RELIABLE network of delivery people keeping this product at the right temperature the entire time and then every single person is reconstituting it correctly.

I'm not up on my medicine history but has any other product in the last twenty years needed its own specialized freezer that's being supplied by the company? I'm sure there has to be, but a mass marketed vaccine of this scale?
I feel like with the kind of eyes that will be on this, it won't be so easy for one part of the logistics chain to screw up such that they're left sitting out somewhere long enough to degrade/expire. But I dunno.

Ideally when it's time to get the jab, I'd just find the most reputable health place to get it done.

Normally I get my flu shot at Target CVS, and I _think_ CVS is pretty trustworthy for that sort of thing. Hopefully.
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Old 12-20-2020, 08:28 PM   #367
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I'm blanking. Did we talk about the new strain in the UK and other countries that seems to be spreading 70% faster?

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-wh...ain/a-56000831
Not yet. Been patiently waiting for updates. We've discussed generalities but Kent is the first real-world deal.
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Old 12-20-2020, 08:31 PM   #368
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I've got to work harder on inserting a pause between 'stimulus' and 'response' (as my meditation class and instructor tries to teach us), and take a breather before reacting.
Yeah. WTF, man?!






I mean, um...
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Old 12-21-2020, 10:07 AM   #369
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i thought we talked about this back in september... about 2 threads ago
New strains and mutations of SARS-Cov-2 are emerging all the time. There have literally been tens of thousands of mutations observed to date. This one in the U.K. is different.

It's evolution, but on a vastly greater and infinitely accelerated scale compared to humans. With people, a 'generation' might take 25 or 30 years for reproduction. With the coronavirus, a single viral particle infecting a human cell can produce hundreds to thousands of copies in just hours, multiplied by billions of viral particles infecting each person. This is reproduction many orders of magnitude faster than the human scale. Under these conditions, mutations appear much more quickly, and along with them, evolution also occurs much faster and changes that benefit the survival of the organism happen much more quickly.

Natural evolutionary processes select for variations that have survival advantages. Most mutations are random and irrelevant. Mutations that inhibit replication or survival are dead ends and burn themselves out. But mutations that in some way enhance the organism's ability to survive are selected for. The mutation identified in the U.K. appears to be just such an evolutionarily advantageous mutation in that it is more easily spread. A viral strain that is spread more easily will preferentially infect more people than other strains, and will become dominant.

While it looks like 'good' news so far (if you can call it 'good' news) that this mutation does not appear to be more virulent than others, if it is more contagious it will infect more people, which will result in more people becoming ill, and more people dying.

Another maybe even scarier prospect for mutation is resistance. Resistance is one of the most frightening and serious things with any infectious pathogen, viral or bacterial. It's a worrisome problem, and signs have already been observed of resistance developing among SARS-CoV-2 mutations. As vaccines and treatments come into wider use, this creates greater selection pressures on the virus. Those viral particles that are susceptible to the vaccine or drug treatment don't survive, which leaves the ecological niche open for mutations that may be resistant. I worked in infectious diseases, and it was science-fiction level scary to see how fast resistance can develop.

Widespread resistance to the vaccine or antibody treatments has not yet developed, but it almost certainly will. It's not a question of if, but when. Resistance to antibodies has already been observed in the lab, and even in patients:

https://elifesciences.org/articles/61312

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....05.20241927v2

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...11.30.405472v1

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...11.04.355842v1

If widespread resistance develops to the vaccines, it would be a big heaping steaming bowl of not good. This is not just a theoretical possibility. The resistant mutations that have been observed show resistance to known antibodies - which is the approach of vaccines, to generate antibodies against the viral spike proteins.

The vaccines are extremely important. But vaccines alone might not be enough to save our collective species butts. It would be even better if humanity had the will, patience, understanding, and resolve to also apply eradication measures in addition to vaccines with the goal of not just containing the pandemic, but eliminating it.

It's harder to eradicate a viral disease. But it's possible, and was done with smallpox. I suspect we won't accomplish it with SARS-CoV-2, because of what it would require. People would have to be willing to go through hard containment, including a lockdown, for some time (maybe a few months?) along with other strict measures. As a country, we can't get people to universally lock down down for a few weeks or even for everyone to wear masks, which is why Tony Fauci said the coronavirus will never be eradicated.

The frustrating thing is, it could be done. It's just up to us to do it.
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Old 12-21-2020, 02:23 PM   #370
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We have gone into Tier 4 lockdown, announced Saturday night, kicked in one minute past midnight Sunday morning!! People panicking, trying to leave London before the lockdown.

Shops gone back to the country wide lockdown situation, queuing outside, couples can't go into the store together!! One shopper per household.

Flights restricted, sea ports locked down, further panicking the public as goods may not make it to the shelves..

It's so fucking stupid, our Government was aware of the mutation since September/October so they could have approached the lockdown in a more controlled and measured manner.

500,000 people have had their first dose of the vaccine. I hadn't appreciated that they require 2 doses!!
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Old 12-21-2020, 03:05 PM   #371
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How widespread is that Tier 4 lockdown?
It touches about 14m people, the Police have been given extra powers to stop people leaving or entering Tier 4 areas. I have a feeling that this lockdown will continue until Easter 2021. If the mutation turns really ugly then we are well and truly fucked!!

I really feel sorry for the long distance heavy goods drivers as a lot of them are stuck at the ferry ports.

Flights out to various countries have been restricted, what is really amusing, countries such as Portugal will allow their own nationals in but all else banned.. don't understand the logic!
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Old 12-21-2020, 03:23 PM   #372
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Flights out to various countries have been restricted, what is really amusing, countries such as Portugal will allow their own nationals in but all else banned.. don't understand the logic!
They don't want tourists and it looks bad internally if stop people coming home.
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Old 12-21-2020, 03:23 PM   #373
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Overdose Deaths Far Outpace COVID-19 Deaths in San Francisco
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...-san-francisco
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Old 12-21-2020, 03:29 PM   #374
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Well, it's official I'm going to be the last person in my immediate family to get the vaccine. Even though I work for a hospital system, I'm not a caregiver.

My wife is an Occupational Therapist in the school system, so she falls under frontline (Phase 1a) and teachers (Phase 1b).

My youngest son is front line medical.

My middle son is a teacher, so Phase 1b.

My oldest son is a grocery store manager, so that makes him Phase 1b as well.

I'm apparently Phase III (whatever that is).
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Old 12-21-2020, 03:35 PM   #375
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Overdose Deaths Far Outpace COVID-19 Deaths in San Francisco
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...-san-francisco
It might be a good idea to make an addiction thread to shed light on that particular humanitarian disaster. I applaud your concern for those affected by addiction and the research you are presenting. It's a rough subject that doesn't get enough attention.
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Old 12-21-2020, 07:16 PM   #376
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It touches about 14m people, the Police have been given extra powers to stop people leaving or entering Tier 4 areas. I have a feeling that this lockdown will continue until Easter 2021. If the mutation turns really ugly then we are well and truly fucked!!

I really feel sorry for the long distance heavy goods drivers as a lot of them are stuck at the ferry ports.

Flights out to various countries have been restricted, what is really amusing, countries such as Portugal will allow their own nationals in but all else banned.. don't understand the logic!
If it spreads faster because it is more contagious then more people die before getting the vaccine, and there are more collateral deaths from an overwhelmed system, but we likely would get through this faster. I prefer the former of course. Hopefully a large rodent doesn't see its shadow.

Some people may be against the police enforcement, but it is better than citizens doing it like they did during the Spanish Flu. Many small towns had road entrances with militia blocking the entrance.
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Old 12-21-2020, 07:18 PM   #377
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It might be a good idea to make an addiction thread to shed light on that particular humanitarian disaster. I applaud your concern for those affected by addiction and the research you are presenting. It's a rough subject that doesn't get enough attention.
Can we get a gold star for this answer-of-the-year

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Old 12-21-2020, 07:38 PM   #378
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+1 I even feel better for having read it.
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