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BRZ Second-Gen (2022+) -- General Topics General topics for the second-gen BRZ


View Poll Results: How would you rate the design of the 2nd gen? 1 lowest & 5 highest
1 11 10.68%
2 10 9.71%
3 32 31.07%
4 40 38.83%
5 10 9.71%
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:09 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
Although the engine itself is not "new" the addition of the Toyota fuel system to give it port and direct injection is unique to this car making it a bespoke combination.
Still haven't seen anything on what platform they used but the increased stiffness would lead in the direction of the new global one. This will allow for quite a few parts bins adaptions.
Its mentioned its a bespoke platform, that uses elements from the the Subaru Global Architecture.

I dont know if that means its the Subaru Global Architecture modifed to be RWD or if its the old one utilizing Subaru global architecture structural tweaks (spot welds and the like) to achieve the increased rigiditiy.
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:10 AM   #58
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@Tcoat, I'm especially with you on the car looking like the front and back were designed by different teams, and on the impossibility of keeping up with so many 2022 threads!

To throw in my 2 cents (and my opinion is certainly worth much less than that...)

Exterior

My first reaction to the exterior styling was that it didn't look as different from the first gen car as I thought it would. But then, the closer and longer I looked, the less I liked it...

@Tcoat nailed it. The front and back half of the car look like they were designed by different teams (which, given the Japanese way of building consensus, might have actually happened, as a way to achieve compromise and make everyone happy). The profile isn't bad, but disjointed. It keeps some of the organic haunches in the rear fenders, but that's incongruous with the creases of the front fenders. Those are two disparate styling themes that don't work well with each other.

The front end likewise is too insectoid for my old-school tastes. Too many creases, slots, gills, and asteroid impact craters. It's not fun or agressive, just kind of like it doesn't know quite what look it wants to project. Not bad, just not... good.

The rear end is OK, but kind of looks like the car backed into a garbage dumpster. Like other elements of the car, it looks like two different teams/people designed it. The trunk lid itself is fine, lip spoiler well proportioned, bumper is OK. But that totally flat rear panel looks somehow... unintegrated, and too 'flat'.

Those side sills, yeah, I know it's a current popular design theme for 'sports/sporty' cars. I've always thought they look tacked-on on any car. Functionally I hate them. I have them on my WRX, and they get scuffed up much too easily. Getting into the car it's impossible (at least for me) to remember to make the conscious effort to lift my feet over them. Your shoes drag across them, and presto!, instant scuffs. I have to polish out the scuffs on the driver's side every few months (and on the passenger side MUCH more often than that...).

Overall, the first-gen car is a rounded, organic design, but this new one has a multiple personality disorder. It's not old-school curvaceous and organic, and it's not completely new-age lines and creases. It's a mongrel mix of both. Maybe that's a styling theme (Chris Bangle coming back?), it might be exactly what some people love, but I'm not of them. I've always preferred old-school curves and more organic design (big surprise, right?).

Interior

It was hard to tell much from the photos and road tests already popping up on line. In some ways the interior looks to be an 'upgrade' from the current car, but won't know for sure until we get in and touch and feel the quality of the materials used. One review made an encouraging comment about the doors feeling more solid than the current car's tinny sound when being closed. The seat design also looks promising.

That said, the dash continues with the same disjointed, incongruous and conflicting design elements from the exterior (so maybe in a way it all hangs together that way, conflicting curves and straight lines). It has more 'straight lines' than the first gen car which to me makes it less interesting to look at.

The instrument panel is now, not surprisingly, totally digital, in keeping with the current design trends. Yes, it allows for the ever-popular 'programmability' and the potential gee-whiz factor on showroom floors as the salesperson shows you how you can change the displays. I personally don't get excited about that. I would always prefer plain, simple analog gauges (duh, my username). Yeah, you can program the dash to look like an analog gauge, but to me it's like a blow-up doll simulating a real person. Not the same thing. However, the all-digital panel is more 'cohesive' than the current instrument panel with its awkward (and kind of cheap looking) mix of analog and digital, so in that sense it's an improvement.

To me the biggest design faux pas is the 'infotainment' panel. Yes, it's bigger, going with the 'bigger is always better' theme. But again it looks disjointed. It looks like someone just kind of stuck it into the dash. It's not well integrated. It looks like something I'd do in my garage with double-sided tape or epoxy. The rest of the switchgear looks like an upgrade over the first gen car, but those are small details.

Drivetrain

This is, of course, The Big One. Yeah, everyone was hoping for a turbo, and likewise everyone knew it was never going to happen. But, to give Subaru credit where it's due, a 2.4 liter engine with 228 hp, and more importantly, 184 ft-lbs of torque, and even more importantly, torque peaking at 3700 vs 6500 rpm, are improvements I like. It may not be an oh-my-god day-and-night transformation compared with the first gen car, and we'll have to wait for the road tests to know, but it seems like a meaningful difference that I could feel in the seat of my pants (which is much more important to me than any 'numbers'). I like a high-revving engine as much as most people here, but at this point in my life (60-something), and for the kind of driving I do (all street, no fantasies of 'tracks' anymore), I imagine the 2.4 engine will be noticeably more satisfying for me to drive than the current low-torque peaky 2.0.

My own personal bottom line

Everything is totally preliminary at this point. We've seen some pics and videos and have a good sense what the new car looks like, and know definitively about the engine. But we haven't sat in it for ourselves, and more importantly, haven't either driven it ourselves or had any true road tests. So much of the jury is still out.

My bottom line is, I'm not enthralled with the styling changes. I like the looks of the current car much better. But I suspect I'll like the drive of the new car equally much better. I'd love to take a test drive of the new car, once it's available and that's possible (without risking one's health and life due to the pandemic). I don't know if the upgrade in driving will offset the downgrade in looks for me. I doubt it, and suspect I'll either keep my current car, or will see how tempted I am by the new Nissan Z (which I think will be more enticing than the new BRZ).

YMMV. Now we can wait for and start speculating about full road tests, and debate the merits and deficiencies of all those when they come out.

Most importantly, whatever you think of the new car, let's all give Subaru (and Toyota) a big round of applause and a heart-felt thanks for building this car at all. The first gen car was never exactly a high-volume money-maker. The sports car segment, especially the lower end, has been shrinking for years. Many manufacturers are abandoning it completely. I can imagine there wasn't exactly a high-profit business case to be made for this car. I'm grateful and thrilled that they invested the money and actually made this next-gen car at all. This car is kind of a gift from Subaru to car enthusiasts. That alone argues for giving the new car more consideration. If we want companies to continue making sports cars like this, people have to actually buy them.

Last edited by AnalogMan; 11-18-2020 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:10 AM   #59
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I'm not really feeling it yet. The front end screams RX-8 to me, and the back end looks like a Civic. Inside, the materials do look nicer and I like the arm rest. But the flat dash all the way across lacks any personality. Maybe this was their way to fix the separation some people had over the center vents

I'm interested to see what the Toyota looks like. I always favored their front end over the Subie, and that's my biggest gripe with this one.

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Old 11-18-2020, 10:12 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzmitry View Post
One of the youtube video guys quoted it was not on the new platform, but uses PART of new platform, whatever that means. Also, it's not official of course, but sounds believable.
Probably subframes?
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:13 AM   #61
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"More important, not only is peak torque up, but from the seat of my pants, the torque curve is also up throughout the rev range. Unlike in the previous car, it felt as if the 2022 BRZ was blasting out of corners. In the first-generation BRZ, well, you never felt that. Is that notorious flat spot in the middle of the rev range gone? Again, didn't drive it, but it feels like it's mostly gone, not totally gone. The new BRZ felt as balanced and as neutral as ever, with a hint of oversteer on turn in. Understeer basically doesn't happen, due mostly to the suspension tuning, though I'd guess the sticky Michelin PS4S tires help some, too."

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/suba...rz-first-ride/

There is a ton of conflicting info already.

I've seen that it is a de-turboed Ascent engine, while someone else said it is all new. Same for the platform; new and improved, and also all-new. Torque dip is gone and torque dip is still there. So on and on.

I'm guessing that press drives won't happen until next Spring, closer to production.
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:13 AM   #62
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so when is the toyota getting revealed?
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:13 AM   #63
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My little birdie was 70% accurate...very close

Company Built By: Subaru [CONFIRMED]
Plant Produced In: Subaru – Gunma Prefecture, Japan [CONFIRMED]
Platform: Subaru Global Platform v2 with revised Sub frame assemblies for a lower center of gravity & 40% Stiffer than v1 [SUSPECTED] Still very sure, 50% stiffer confirmed
Power plant possibility #1: FA24 - 2.4L boxer 4-cylinder - Normally Aspirated (86/BRZ specific, not used in any other model) Power: 215 – 225 HP, 170-200ft/lb. torque [CONFIRMED] Actual: 228 HP, 184 ft/lbs

Weight: Under 2,881lbs [CONFIRMED] Actual: 2831lbs 6MT, 2,881lbs 6AT
Suspension changes: 5x114.3 lug pattern, larger STI style wheel bearings [SUSPECTED]
Aluminum knuckles [SUSPECTED]
Models/Trims/Pricing (MSRP): [SUSPECTED]
Subaru: BRZ Limited – MT or AT w/Eyesight - $29,915 (MT) / $31,715 (AT)
Performance Package adds $2,975 - $32,890 (MT) / $34,690 (AT)
TS – MT Only (Released 1 year after) - $35,245

Toyota: 86 – MT or AT - $28,975 (MT) / $29,715 (AT)
TRD Package adds $2,975 - $31,950 (MT) / $32,690 (AT)
GR86 – MT Only (Released 1 year after) - $34,845

Official Announcement Date: November 18, 2020 [CONFIRMED]
Projected Release Date: Spring 2021 [SUSPECTED] Actual: Early Fall 2021

Originally created on: 02/17/2020
Updates: 11/17/2020

2022 Subaru BRZ

BRZ Limited 6MT
PRICE STARTING AT: $29,923

Vehicle
EPA Classification: Subcompact Cars

Drivetrain: Rear Wheel Drive
Engine Type and Required Fuel: Premium Unleaded H-4
Displacement (liters/cubic inches): 2.4 L/146

Fuel System: Gasoline Direct Injection
Maximum Horsepower @ RPM: 221 @ 6000 / 228 @ 7000
Maximum Torque @ RPM: 193 @ 4400 / 184 @ 3,700
Number of Transmission Speeds: 6
First Gear Ratio (:1): 3.63
Second Gear Ratio (:1): 2.19
Third Gear Ratio (:1): 1.54
Fourth Gear Ratio (:1): 1.21
Fifth Gear Ratio (:1): 1.00
Sixth Gear Ratio (:1): 0.77
Reverse Ratio (:1): 3.44
Final Drive Axle Ratio (:1) : 4.30


Fuel Economy and Range
CO2 Emissions, 15K mi/year (tons): 6.5
Range, city/highway (miles): 283.10 / 371.80
EPA Fuel Economy, combined/city/highway (mpg): 28 / 30 / 37
Fuel Capacity / Gas Tank Size: 13.8

Exterior Dimensions
Wheelbase (inches): 101.7 / 101.4
Length (inches): 164.3 / 167.9
Width, without mirrors (inches): 70.1
Height (inches): 52.4 / 51.6
Front Track Width (inches): 60.1
Rear Track Width (inches): 60.8
Minimum Ground Clearance (inches): 4.9

Interior Dimensions
Passenger / Seating Capacity: 4
Total Passenger Volume (cubic feet): 77.2
Front Head Room (inches): 37.2
Front Leg Room (inches): 42.0
Front Shoulder Room (inches): 54.8
Front Hip Room (inches): 53.4
Second Row Head Room (inches): 35.3
Second Row Leg Room (inches): 30.2
Second Row Shoulder Room (inches): 51.8
Second Row Hip Room (inches): 46.2

Cargo Area Dimensions
Trunk Space (cubic feet): 6.6

Steering: Rack-Pinion (Electric)

Suspension
Front Suspension Type: Strut
Rear Suspension Type: Double Wishbone


Brakes
Brake Type: 4-Wheel Disc
Anti-Lock-Braking System: 4-Wheel
Front Brake Rotors, diameter x thickness (inches): 11.6
Rear Brake Rotors, diameter x thickness (inches): 11.4


Wheels and Tires (Close, these are Premium model Specs)
Front Wheel Size (inches): 17 X 7.5
Front Wheel Material: Aluminum
Front Tire Size: P225/45YR17
Rear Wheel Size (inches): 17 X 7.5
Rear Wheel Material: Aluminum
Rear Tire Size: P225/45YR17
Spare Wheel Size (inches): Compact
Spare Wheel Material: Steel
Spare Tire Size: Compact

Wheel Bolt Pattern: 5 x 114.3mm

Base Curb Weight (pounds): 2881 6AT / 2,831 6MT

Electrical
Cold Cranking Amps @ 0 F: 470
Maximum Alternator Capacity (amps): 190
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:15 AM   #64
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Still no turbo. We must still be in 2020.
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:15 AM   #65
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It does look like an ugly cayman from this one angle.



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Old 11-18-2020, 10:17 AM   #66
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Unhappy

The body curves for the front and rear fenders look mismatched and don't flow well with the flat doors in between. First gen pulled it off much better.

Not a fan. I am disappoint
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:17 AM   #67
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...but they filled in those incomplete holes in the climate control area. That is my favorite thing about the 2022.
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:17 AM   #68
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I would expect 0-60 to fall around 5.7 seconds with a hard launch. Around 9 seconds in denver with 500lbs of YouTube dumbasses in it.
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:17 AM   #69
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Excellent. My FRS will be 8 years old next fall and this looks like a perfect replacement.

The real question is if I wait until the following spring to let the first production run gremlins get worked out.
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:19 AM   #70
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Quote:
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so when is the toyota getting revealed?
anyone recall the time differences of when the 1st gen debut?
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