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BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe


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Old 11-03-2020, 09:54 PM   #43
Flarpswitch
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I am going to cast my vote against the Mazda. Around 1972 I got to tear into a Mazda rotary engine at the dealership I worked at. Our shop was British Leyland and Datsun; the Mazda was an overflow job from the companion dealership owned by the same company. I had previously attended workshops given by Mazda so it was not entirely a surprise. The general consensus among all the mechanics in town that had the joy of working on Wankel engines is that it will never be a mainstream technology. I will admit that I felt an attraction to the RX-7 and RX-8, but resisted. I have owned three Mazda cars and always wanted an MX-5 from day one, but I don't fit in it comfortably. Good thing Mazda made piston engines otherwise they would be history. Bottom line is you really have to want the RX-8 to go that way, but from my perspective, the rotary engine is a pile of hurt. God help us all; Mazda is bringing back the rotary in an RX-9. Whatever.
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Old 11-04-2020, 08:13 AM   #44
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I am going to cast my vote against the Mazda. Around 1972 I got to tear into a Mazda rotary engine at the dealership I worked at. Our shop was British Leyland and Datsun; the Mazda was an overflow job from the companion dealership owned by the same company. I had previously attended workshops given by Mazda so it was not entirely a surprise. The general consensus among all the mechanics in town that had the joy of working on Wankel engines is that it will never be a mainstream technology. I will admit that I felt an attraction to the RX-7 and RX-8, but resisted. I have owned three Mazda cars and always wanted an MX-5 from day one, but I don't fit in it comfortably. Good thing Mazda made piston engines otherwise they would be history. Bottom line is you really have to want the RX-8 to go that way, but from my perspective, the rotary engine is a pile of hurt. God help us all; Mazda is bringing back the rotary in an RX-9. Whatever.
1) He chose, received, and posted pics to this thread of the twin a month ago (it's on what would have been the current page when you posted).
2) You're going to rule out the RX-8 based on an experience almost 50 years ago? Really? I should rule out all Mazda's ever then because my '02 blew 2 motors without ever being modded or tracked (FYI the 2.3L I4's from around then were apparently notorious for failing around 130k).

By the time the RX-8 was released the rotary had changed so much that it was no longer a Wankel and was in fact called the Renesis. Now; I don't think anyone would consider them reliable still, but suffice to say that things change over half a century.
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Old 11-04-2020, 08:43 AM   #45
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1) He chose, received, and posted pics to this thread of the twin a month ago (it's on what would have been the current page when you posted).
2) You're going to rule out the RX-8 based on an experience almost 50 years ago? Really? I should rule out all Mazda's ever then because my '02 blew 2 motors without ever being modded or tracked (FYI the 2.3L I4's from around then were apparently notorious for failing around 130k).

By the time the RX-8 was released the rotary had changed so much that it was no longer a Wankel and was in fact called the Renesis. Now; I don't think anyone would consider them reliable still, but suffice to say that things change over half a century.
The 13bmsp (renesis) is still a wankel engine. Its just a cleaner evolution of the old 13b.

And if anything the only real change in 50 years of wankels is that they became less reliable, not more.
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Old 11-13-2020, 12:36 AM   #46
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I drove both long term: RX-8 for 8 years and BRZ for 7. No contest - Mazda was a better car. Even though mine required new engine at 50K miles and another one when I sold it with 95K on odometer. Engine felt better, steering - better, brakes - much better. Even style - it looked more expensive than it was.



Though you only should consider RX-8, if you have capability to do repair work on engine (a must!), transmission, suspension etc. But it can be rebuilt as dedicated track car with greater success than BRZ/FT86.
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Old 11-13-2020, 06:01 AM   #47
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I drove both long term: RX-8 for 8 years and BRZ for 7. No contest - Mazda was a better car. Even though mine required new engine at 50K miles and another one when I sold it with 95K on odometer.


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Engine felt better, steering - better, brakes - much better. Even style - it looked more expensive than it was.
Engine sounds neat, I like it, but the weight of the car is too much for it. Mazda should have made a rotary-engine Miata!
IMO the steering is GREAT, but not better than the FT86's.
RX-8 brakes do not feel better than PP Brembos.
RX-8 *style* starts out great but the bulbous fender flares are unfortunate and the rear window and the side profile in that area are tragic.

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Though you only should consider RX-8, if you have capability to do repair work on engine (a must!),
What kinda repair work can you even do to the engine? Usually when they fail, it's rebuild or replace. I cut my losses and sold my FC as-was when it lunched apex seals...

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But it can be rebuilt as dedicated track car with greater success than BRZ/FT86.
Depending on what you call "success", I guess? A friend of mine is totally rebuilding one with a K-swap, I'm really looking forward to that!

I actually love the RX-8 and nearly bought one. Glad I got an S2000 instead. They're cool cars, but as slow as the FT86, 250 lb. heavier, and yeah, that whole reliability thing...

It is not a "better" car than the FT86. IMO far far from it...

Oh yeah, 95-in-the-quarter acceleration, with 18mpg fuel mileage, in a just-over-3000-lb car, is frickin SAD...

Last edited by ZDan; 11-13-2020 at 07:25 AM.
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Old 11-14-2020, 12:46 AM   #48
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I drove both long term: RX-8 for 8 years and BRZ for 7. No contest - Mazda was a better car. Even though mine required new engine at 50K miles and another one when I sold it with 95K on odometer. Engine felt better, steering - better, brakes - much better. Even style - it looked more expensive than it was.



Though you only should consider RX-8, if you have capability to do repair work on engine (a must!), transmission, suspension etc. But it can be rebuilt as dedicated track car with greater success than BRZ/FT86.
Lol
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Old 11-14-2020, 10:07 AM   #49
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I drove both long term: RX-8 for 8 years and BRZ for 7. No contest - Mazda was a better car. Even though mine required new engine at 50K miles and another one when I sold it with 95K on odometer. Engine felt better, steering - better, brakes - much better. Even style - it looked more expensive than it was.

Though you only should consider RX-8, if you have capability to do repair work on engine (a must!), transmission, suspension etc. But it can be rebuilt as dedicated track car with greater success than BRZ/FT86.
@avp1, I agree with you on both points. I also drove a RX8 (two of them) long term, for 10 years. As much as I like my BRZ very much, the RX8 is a 'better' car in almost all respects. More fun and distinctive to drive (it feels like an exotic, which truth be told it is), more distinctive styling, better all-out performance 'numbers'. It's amazing how much performance and personality Mazda designed into the RX8 for the price.

BUT, and it's a non-trivial 'but', as I rambled on at length in my earlier post, I also agree with your second point. The RX8 is a needy car. It's high maintenance, and only suitable for someone who is really into working on the engine themselves, and diligent enough for the frequent maintenance and high level of care it needs, and deserves.

I miss my old RX8 very much.
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Old 11-14-2020, 10:46 AM   #50
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@avp1I also drove a RX8 (two of them) long term, for 10 years. As much as I like my BRZ very much, the RX8 is a 'better' car in almost all respects. More fun and distinctive to drive (it feels like an exotic, which truth be told it is)
It's the early-release long-wheelbase 2+2 4-door coupe version of the NC Miata, with a rotary engine. It is a cool car, but "exotic"? That's a bit of a stretch... In the sense that you don't see them out on the roads, and it has a novel (but inferior) non-piston engine, only in those senses is it "exotic".

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, more distinctive styling, better all-out performance 'numbers'.
Both are 95mph-in-the-1/4 cars, FT86 being a tick or two quicker to get there.

RX-8 really shoulda been a shorter-wheelbase, lighter-weight 2seater, but Ford apparently had other ideas...

Cross-shopping RX-8 vs. S2000, I went with the Honda based on better performance, greater expected reliability, and b'cuz daily commuter much better fuel economy. I drove S2k from 40k miles to 240k miles on the clock, no ragrets! F20C is actually kinda similar to rotary in terms of hp/torque/revs, but actually LASTS, and gives decent fuel economy.

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The RX8 is a needy car. It's high maintenance, and only suitable for someone who is really into working on the engine themselves, and diligent enough for the frequent maintenance and high level of care it needs, and deserves.
I don't get the comments about having to "work on the engine". As a former rotary-owner, my impression is that you do frequent oil changes, frequently check the oil, maybe run pre-mix, and the thing works up until it doesn't work anymore. It's not like there's any "working on the engine" to be done, or am I missing something?

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I miss my old RX8 very much.
I miss my FC as well! Perfectly maintained, lunched apex seals at 105k miles. Surprising no one in the rotary community...

I love Mazda, love the RX7, I've owned two (rotary FC and V8 FD), would LOVE it if Mazda would make a new fixed-roof sports car *with a good highish-revving piston engine*. A 250+ hp 2.5 liter V4 would package great in a small sports car and partially make up for some of the lost rotary novelty...

RX8 was a slightly more upscale car, but "better" than the FT86? IMO, no....
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Old 11-14-2020, 09:12 PM   #51
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I drove both long term: RX-8 for 8 years and BRZ for 7. No contest - Mazda was a better car. Even though mine required new engine at 50K miles and another one when I sold it with 95K on odometer. Engine felt better, steering - better, brakes - much better. Even style - it looked more expensive than it was.



Though you only should consider RX-8, if you have capability to do repair work on engine (a must!), transmission, suspension etc. But it can be rebuilt as dedicated track car with greater success than BRZ/FT86.
Do I need body work skills too? Maybe upholstery experience?
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Old 11-15-2020, 08:35 AM   #52
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Wasn’t the RX8 released in 2002? The fact that people compare that car to a BRZ, a highly focused, dedicated sports car with a decade more of technological advancements, speaks highly of how that “old” RX8 performed.
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Old 11-16-2020, 02:39 PM   #53
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Wasn’t the RX8 released in 2002? The fact that people compare that car to a BRZ, a highly focused, dedicated sports car with a decade more of technological advancements, speaks highly of how that “old” RX8 performed.
Not everyone one does. I wouldn't buy one if it was free. It's a unique car and has some cool elements.. but that's where it ends.

I would buy an FD with an LS swap though, just tried to a few weeks ago but was outbid
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