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GR86 General Topics General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


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Old 08-30-2020, 09:59 PM   #295
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1) The current iteration looks cool, especially from about 80% of the various different angles.

2) FI to me always means more complications and more heat. The McLaren F1, the Honda S2000 and the t.50 are my benchmarks.*

3) With the GT86, I feel like I have the visibility of a tank driver peering through a slot.




*EDIT: Actually, there are lots of NA cars that work for me. What I'm looking for is 250 hp, 250 ft lb torque, 2500 lbs. Mid-'80s Porsche 911s had it, the D-Type had 250 hp, 250 ft lb torque, etc.

Ahhh ok so you like the current fenders, but not on the sketches for the 2nd gen. We need to wait and see the real final product.

FI adds complexity and cost no doubt. I see it as a great way to make power and also meet stricter emissions. The higher the displacement the harder that becomes. I donít think the 2nd gen will have any kind of FI. I would be shocked if it did. An NA motor with a bump in power across the powerband would be awesome.

I donít feel that way about the visibility out of my FR-S, itís just about perfect to me. Except for that blind spot, which is very easy to spot check. The view out the front is amazing with the low hood and dash and visible fenders to help place the car. Out the back isnít quite as good, but itís a small sporty coupe. I totally understand if it doesnít work for everyone though!


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Old 08-30-2020, 10:18 PM   #296
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Those engines didn't have high specific output. They got their torque from the displacement, and they didn't rev high, which is why the horsepower and torque are similar. That was from a time when vehicles were smaller, and there wasn't much technology or safety.
Duly noted.

I think the mid-'80s Porsche 911 was 2.8 liter. Around '87, it got as high as 3.2 liter. Your point is well-taken.

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Your other option is to buy a ND Miata and fit an Edelbrock supercharger with E85. It will feel NA.
I was thinking I would settle for a Miata NC, and see if I would strip out some of the weight.

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What you want doesn't exist.
I get this a lot. Especially from women.
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Old 08-30-2020, 10:23 PM   #297
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@ JesseG: No, I don't like humps on my fenders. I like humps on my women. Weren't you around for Fergie? That said, the current '86 has a cool look from most angles.

My thinking on power always goes back to weight. I'd rather have a simpler engine in a lighter car. What's the ideal weight, in your view? I'm thinking 2,000 el bees. From three, you could drop in a 200 hp engine and be laughing your head off through the canyons.
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:25 AM   #298
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1) < snip >
*EDIT: Actually, there are lots of NA cars that work for me. What I'm looking for is 250 hp, 250 ft lb torque, 2500 lbs. Mid-'80s Porsche 911s had it, the D-Type had 250 hp, 250 ft lb torque, etc.
If you want a D-Type (replica) talk to my friend Tom he built one using a 3.4 SS sedan.

Watch this video


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Old 08-31-2020, 10:54 AM   #299
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Contrary to what this thread title states I am still waiting for a "clear" look at the car. We have no idea what the camo may be hiding even though some seem to have x-ray vision.
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:54 AM   #300
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All I get from all those photos is this:

The new 911 is pretty damn ugly. So tragic.
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:57 AM   #301
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Is "bland" the word you're looking for?

I hate FI. Can't they get 240 hp out of a 2-liter NA engine? Okay, 225 hp?

I could live without the "humpy" fenders, but what I'd like is a better view from the cockpit. Maybe that's just me.
I wouldn't go so far as to call the new GR86 images 'bland', but to my old-guy eyes which are used to all the fun, personality-filled sports cars of the 60's, it's less curvaceous and distinctive than the current BRZ/86. Maybe 'toned down' or 'more restrained' ' is about as far as I'd go, but I don't think it's 'bland'. Just not as pretty. And life is too short to not drive a pretty car.

I personally like the 'humpy' front fenders, though I prefer to think of them as voluptuous and alluring. I think it's one of the best design elements that gives the BRZ/86 the most personality. Some of the famous coke-bottle shaped sports cars of the 50's/60's were supposedly inspired by the look of a supine woman's body, lying on her side. While now in today's hyper-woke culture it's not allowed to say such things, there's no denying the timeless beauty of a woman's body, and I certainly don't mind a car's design reminding me of it. I don't find the front fenders interfering with my forward visibility at all. At my height (6'0") I can just see the tops of them, enough to remind me they're there, but in no way blocking any part of my view. Just like in my old Opel GT's, Karmann-Ghia (slow but gorgeous), and (I dare say) probably more subtle and less pronounced than in the Porsche Cayman, and I can't recall people complaining about the forward view out of that car.

I'm completely with you on preferring N/A engines over turbo (again, probably because my automotive formative years were forged in the cars of the 1960's). To me there's nothing like the immediacy and linear responsiveness of a good naturally aspirated engine. N/A engines just have more personality than turbo motors. To me, most turbo motors are more or less the same. Nothing happening down low before the turbo kicks in, then a slingshot catapult explosion around 2500 rpm, and then it's all over by 5000 rpm. My WRX has a turbo and yes, it has much more 'power' than the BRZ, but I still feel most fondly about some of the legendary N/A engines.... Honda S2000... Coyote V8.... small-block GM V8.... any 50's/60's N/A Alfa.... Companies use turbos instead of N/A engineering because, as was said, it's a cheaper way to get power, as well as cheating on fuel mileage tests.

I'd still gladly take a GR86 IF it came with a turbo motor. But since that's almost certainly not going to happen, I'll be happily keeping my current car, sensuous front fenders and all.

Last edited by AnalogMan; 08-31-2020 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 08-31-2020, 11:07 AM   #302
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I personally like the 'humpy' front fenders, though I prefer to think of them as voluptuous and alluring. I think it's one of the best design elements that gives the BRZ/86 the most personality.
I agree, I've shared this before but the first time I had "contact" with the 86 at the First 86 event in Long Beach in 2012, I walked up to it and ran my finger along the hood gap up the hump.

I still do that when I approach the car from the front on occasion.
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Old 08-31-2020, 12:51 PM   #303
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@Stephen W.: Looks like a nice replica. Thanks.

For the record, the XKSS is in my Top 4 if anyone wants to loan me their credit card . . . .

Last edited by Marrk; 08-31-2020 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 08-31-2020, 01:04 PM   #304
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@AnalogMan: The post-war years were a Golden Age of sports car design, so you're setting a high standard. I wish we could get back to those kinds of cars and that kind of driving.

About the humps ó and this is the last that I will say about them (I hope) ó I think the idea is good, but the execution is hokey. They seem added on rather than an organic part of the design. If you want humps, go to the Ferrari Dino, or the Porsche 904, or something like that. I could be a happy humper with cars like those.

That said, the current BRZ has a lot going for it. Especially since we don't live in the sports car-rich environment of the 1960s.
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Old 08-31-2020, 01:44 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Marrk View Post
1)
*EDIT: Actually, there are lots of NA cars that work for me. What I'm looking for is 250 hp, 250 ft lb torque, 2500 lbs. Mid-'80s Porsche 911s had it, the D-Type had 250 hp, 250 ft lb torque, etc.
A mid 80's 911 made 217 hp and 192 tq with a 3.2l engine with the older measurement system, and at a much higher cost with completely different set of emissions rules. And a D type was a le mans winning racecar that was wildly expensive.

I think you may want to temper your expectations a bit with todays limitations on emissions and fuel economy unless you're willing to spend 2x the money.

EDIT: regarding 911 engine sizes, in the US we had a 2.7 liter through 1977, 3.0 liter through 1983 and 3.2 liter through 89 when they went to the 3.6
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Old 08-31-2020, 01:59 PM   #306
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@D1cker: What's your favorite pick for a new, rear-wheel drive sports car under $30,000? It's down to BRZ or Miata, isn't it?
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Old 08-31-2020, 03:08 PM   #307
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@D1cker: What's your favorite pick for a new, rear-wheel drive sports car under $30,000? It's down to BRZ or Miata, isn't it?
You're down to a Camaro, Mustang, MX5 or a BRZ/86.

If it was my only car I'd get a BRZ with the perf pack, or a ND2 miata club soft top if you have a daily.

I live in southern California with great driving roads and try to get to the track frequently. If I lived somewhere with less fun roads, I would probably get a Mustang Ecoboost with the high performance package.

Also, all three of my choices were over 30k at those trims but
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Old 08-31-2020, 09:01 PM   #308
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I agree, I've shared this before but the first time I had "contact" with the 86 at the First 86 event in Long Beach in 2012, I walked up to it and ran my finger along the hood gap up the hump.

I still do that when I approach the car from the front on occasion.
You can tell a car is good looking when you look back at it after parking and walking away, just to see it and take in its looks. I do that every time with my BRZ.

But then, a friend of mine does that with his F150 pickup truck, so there's no accounting for taste.
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