Video: Toyota GR86 SPIED for the First Time!

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by TheDonEffect

The ITR didn't sell because it was expensive for what it was. Objective enthusiasts passed over it waiting for the rumored WRX, or bought a pony car or whatever else. Sport Compact Car did a comparison called V8 Smackdown where they pitted the ITR against a regular Mustang GT, and the Mustang beat it in every objective test, and it was cheaper. Those mustangs sold like hotcakes despite the economic downturn. JDM enthusiasts rather just pick up a used Integra and mod it out, since you could buy a practically mint GSR back then for 10-15k, which was way less than half of that ITR.

Like the S2000CR, it became popular after the fact when rational though no longer prevailed. People want to get nolstalgic and buy these cars now that they can afford it, and while theyre at it buy the best rendition of it.

The NSX was competitive when it came out, but the 300zx, Supra, RX7, and 3000gt eclipsed it in performance, and the Euro competition caught and surpassed it. You bought the NSX because of the way it looked, plain and simple. It was an exotic bargain in 1990, by 1996 it was a good looking obsolete car.

And people back then knew what Supras could do, and when it got discotinued they held their value relatively well. Unlike the 300ZX which you could buy a good example for under 10k, the MKIV Supra never really dropped below 20k, and for the longest time hovered around 30k. F&F brought attention to it, but you didn't see cars like the Eclipse or RX7 skyrocketing in prices liek teh Supra did. What ended up happening was that they all got popular, but the Supra which was relatively already rare, became rarer as people crashed them, needed replacement parts, etc. The FD is becoming more and more expensive these day as well.

The DC2 integra has a very loyal, fanatic following, and unmolested cars are very rare, and alot have succumbed to be being stolen and stripped that these cars are becoming increasingly rare. But I'd much rather drive an S2000 or an 86 than an ITR unless I wanted to be nostalgic.

Another example would be Vipers which have also creeped up in prices lately. I remember you could buy a 96 GTS for under 30k, now you'd be hard pressed to find one under 45k. I had a buddy who bought an NSX in 97 or 98, it was a 93 IIRC (two tone... shoot it may have been a 96 because it mightve had ttops..., nah couldnt be), got it for about 25k.

I think a big part of the problem with Integra Type R’s selling was the guys who wanted them, had trouble affording them. Same thing with the S2000. And bringing up the Mustang GT is a good example of shopping for a car based on HP and torque. I’ve had plenty of seat time in that era Mustang GT, and I fu**ing hate them. They really are piles of garbage. Aside from how they sound, which can be awesome. Two cars couldn’t have more different approaches to performance. The ITR feels light, balanced, precise, and just alive. The GT is rattly and wobbly and the clutch and shifter are god awful. Plus you feel like you are sitting on top of them.

But anyway, I think the collector market for some of these classic Japanese sports cars will continue to grow. Like you said prices for FD RX7’s in good shape are rapidly climbing. The Supra has been a legend for a long time. Stories about how much power they could make, and secret top speed runs became a phenomenon. I remember one of the earliest videos I watched on YouTube was a Supra walking away from a Hayabusa on the highway. It was mind blowing, a car shouldn’t be able to walk away from one of the fastest sportbikes of all time. What’s even better about the Supra is that it’s such a great car, not just a highway monster. I don’t think Japanese tuners went as crazy with horsepower and they focused more on the balance of the car.
I’ve always been a big fan of Japanese cars, so it’s nice to see these really awesome cars get the spotlight. The downside is it’s getting more difficult to buy them. Importing from Japan is tempting, but then you have a right hand drive car.


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[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by JesseG

Importing from Japan is tempting, but then you have a right hand drive car.

What’s wrong with that? Works well here and 74 other countries

[wbradley]

I leased 2 new Integras- a '97 4 door with M5, leather, sunroof, nice wheels etc. and a '99 3 door with all the same content plus a rear spoiler. It was a special edition of some sort. When I went to make the deal on the first one, I think I saw the ITR and was aware of it, and actually considered it as an option for when I went over to the 3 door except I didn't like the idea of needing a spare set of wheels with winter tires. I had never owned a car with summer tires and I remembered my Mom's '90 Celica GTS had winter/summer wheels and tires and it just wasn't as if I was vaguely aware of track performance, it was just a nice car that I might have leased and returned in 3 years not realizing it was a classic in the future. I didn't read import car magazines at the time. Ended up leasing 4 Acuras over 11+ years. Honda Accord '08 V6 EX-R afterward had a significantly cheaper feel to the interior.

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by wbradley

I leased 2 new Integras- a '97 4 door with M5, leather, sunroof, nice wheels etc. and a '99 3 door with all the same content plus a rear spoiler. It was a special edition of some sort. When I went to make the deal on the first one, I think I saw the ITR and was aware of it, and actually considered it as an option for when I went over to the 3 door except I didn't like the idea of needing a spare set of wheels with winter tires. I had never owned a car with summer tires and I remembered my Mom's '90 Celica GTS had winter/summer wheels and tires and it just wasn't as if I was vaguely aware of track performance, it was just a nice car that I might have leased and returned in 3 years not realizing it was a classic in the future. I didn't read import car magazines at the time. Ended up leasing 4 Acuras over 11+ years. Honda Accord '08 V6 EX-R afterward had a significantly cheaper feel to the interior.

I totally understand why the DC2 Integras have such a loyal following, they are terrific cars. I really also liked the GSR trim, it was set up with some nicer features, a sun roof, leather, etc.
Honda (and Acura) absolutely ruled the import car world, and there were two kinds of ITRs at the time. Those that had been broken into/stolen, and those that would be broken into/stolen. It was insane. Even the GSR was a big target for thieves. So it was a weird combination of the ITR not being on most people’s radar, but being very much on a small group of people’s radar. I knew back then it was a unique and special car, but I realize that even more so now.


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[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by TheDonEffect

The ITR didn't sell because it was expensive for what it was. Objective enthusiasts passed over it waiting for the rumored WRX, or bought a pony car or whatever else. Sport Compact Car did a comparison called V8 Smackdown where they pitted the ITR against a regular Mustang GT, and the Mustang beat it in every objective test, and it was cheaper.

I remember that exact article! Given all the hype around the ITR, I thought it would at least have the faster laptimes. I do think the appeal of the ITR isn't necessarily the numbers but the driving experience and in retrospect today, I'd rather have an ITR than a similar-era Mustang GT.

[TheDonEffect]

Originally Posted by JesseG

I think a big part of the problem with Integra Type R’s selling was the guys who wanted them, had trouble affording them. Same thing with the S2000. And bringing up the Mustang GT is a good example of shopping for a car based on HP and torque. I’ve had plenty of seat time in that era Mustang GT, and I fu**ing hate them. They really are piles of garbage. Aside from how they sound, which can be awesome. Two cars couldn’t have more different approaches to performance. The ITR feels light, balanced, precise, and just alive. The GT is rattly and wobbly and the clutch and shifter are god awful. Plus you feel like you are sitting on top of them.

But anyway, I think the collector market for some of these classic Japanese sports cars will continue to grow. Like you said prices for FD RX7’s in good shape are rapidly climbing. The Supra has been a legend for a long time. Stories about how much power they could make, and secret top speed runs became a phenomenon. I remember one of the earliest videos I watched on YouTube was a Supra walking away from a Hayabusa on the highway. It was mind blowing, a car shouldn’t be able to walk away from one of the fastest sportbikes of all time. What’s even better about the Supra is that it’s such a great car, not just a highway monster. I don’t think Japanese tuners went as crazy with horsepower and they focused more on the balance of the car.
I’ve always been a big fan of Japanese cars, so it’s nice to see these really awesome cars get the spotlight. The downside is it’s getting more difficult to buy them. Importing from Japan is tempting, but then you have a right hand drive car.


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Yeah those new edge mustangs weren't very good, but they sold and actually alot of people like them. And lets not forget about the terminators.

I disagree with the power aspect, the supras and such were powerful for the day. 300+hp was alot in the 90s. V8 mustangs at that time were 220hp, the new edge generation was 260 for instance. Those japanese cars were amongst the fastest things you could buy. Period. Unless you're buying a viper, xj220, and a handful of super exotic stuff.

On the low end, a 180hp gsr can compete with a v8 mustsng, and wqs for less money too. It really was the heyday of the imports because they had adequate power for its time.

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by TheDonEffect

Yeah those new edge mustangs weren't very good, but they sold and actually alot of people like them. And lets not forget about the terminators.

I disagree with the power aspect, the supras and such were powerful for the day. 300+hp was alot in the 90s. V8 mustangs at that time were 220hp, the new edge generation was 260 for instance. Those japanese cars were amongst the fastest things you could buy. Period. Unless you're buying a viper, xj220, and a handful of super exotic stuff.

On the low end, a 180hp gsr can compete with a v8 mustsng, and wqs for less money too. It really was the heyday of the imports because they had adequate power for its time.

Agreed, they sold very well. The Mustang in my opinion has never been a very good car, until recently. But I just look for different things in a car than what they offer. In the muscle car segment I always thought the Camaro was a better car. BUT, the Mustang is a cult classic and always will be, and it has usually sold better than its competition.
Yeah the Supra turbo was powerful for its time, and even now it’s considered good power. The horsepower wars hadn’t kicked into full drive yet. Maybe I should clarify and say the Mustang GT was a classic case of choosing a car because it has a V8. Never mind the rest of the car sucks. All cars have to compromise somewhere, I guess it just matters what parts you are ok with being compromised.


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[JesseG]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I remember that exact article! Given all the hype around the ITR, I thought it would at least have the faster laptimes. I do think the appeal of the ITR isn't necessarily the numbers but the driving experience and in retrospect today, I'd rather have an ITR than a similar-era Mustang GT.

I remember the article also, it must have left an impression on a lot of us. And I remember being kind of ticked off at it. Lol But that is auto “journalism” for ya! They know their reader base.
It’s not even a question for me ITR over any Mustang of that time. You don’t drive magazine numbers right.


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[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by JesseG

I remember the article also, it must have left an impression on a lot of us. And I remember being kind of ticked off at it. Lol But that is auto “journalism” for ya! They know their reader base.
It’s not even a question for me ITR over any Mustang of that time. You don’t drive magazine numbers right.


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Yeah it's funny how it's still the same age-old debate today. The Japanese sports cars (86/Miata) are worse in most metrics than their domestic counterparts, but are smaller, lighter and generally better to drive.

Apparently some things never change...

[brilliantnerd2050]

These pic are awesome!!

[gymratter]

[StE92ve]

That front end looks awesome if only shown for a brief moment in that side view mirror

[Lantanafrs2]

I didn't see a thing in that video. Got any sasquatch vids?

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

I didn't see a thing in that video. Got any sasquatch vids?

nope sorry, thats my secret

It looked like the Camry was trying to get in front of the 86 to block the view lol.