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BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe


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Old 02-21-2012, 07:04 PM   #1
prest1ge
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The car I've been hoping someone would make since the S2000

When the S2000 was still available, I honestly believed that it was the best car below $50k. Attractive exterior, quality materials for the interior, lightweight, RWD, great hp/liter ratio, excellent handling, japanese reliability, excellent fuel economy. Having been around a few porsches and bmws throughout my life, I knew that my next car (after my current SUV retires) would have to be some sort of "driver's" car--and what better choice than an S2000. Unfortunately, Honda decided to axe it's only true sports car due to poor sales in the US. Why the s2000 did so poorly in the US boggled my mind. Please don't flame me too hard as everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but why would anyone pick anything else within the s2k's price range? GTI: FWD and poor reliability. MS3: FWD and ugly exterior. Mustang GT: heavy, pathetic HP for the engine size (pre-5.0 days), love-hate looks. The list goes on--any car you name, it is in some way inferior to the s2000.
A year ago, I began looking for a replacement for my aging SUV. Not having known about the FT86 at the time, I limited my choices to GTI, WRX (possibly STI), 370z, and civic SI. The civic SI would've be an easy choice if only it were offered in RWD instead of FWD. Why have the japanese giants given up on their driver's car heritage? No more supra, rx7, s2000, nsx, and even rsx. And why are the somewhat sporty cars becoming uglier and porkier? 370z was the strongest contender at the time but had me in some doubt due to it's weird, roundish shape (the 350z was much more attractive IMO) and brute force design of a v6 to compensate its porkiness.
I then happened to stumble upon the ft86 a few months ago when just some basic specs and real-life images were released. Within minutes I knew it would have to be my next car. Light weight, RWD, quality engine, utilitarian/simple interior (like porsches), and an exterior design that is attractive for the most part. I remember thinking to myself "i hope this wont cost over $40k" and you bet i was damn excited to find out that it would cost around $25k. I love the ft86 so much that i would easily pick it over a 335i coupe. The philosophy behind the design of this car is 100% congruent to my idea of what a driver's car should be. I have high hopes that the ft86 will be the only car to entertain me until i become financially capable to upgrade to a porsche.

Thank you subaru and toyota for finally waking up and building a car to fill in the void of this niche market. And thanks to all the forum members who have been contributing finds to this forum, making my wait a lot more exciting and hopeful.
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:17 PM   #2
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I am glad you feel the way you do! Many of us have similar sentiments!


And welcome to the community! We are heavy on the sarcasm and perhaps a bit too troll-prone for our own good, but you'll enjoy it here. I know I have!


And you're a fellow Texas bloke, so hurrah for that!
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:19 PM   #3
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welcome to the forum!

to answer your question about the s2k. Sports car's target audience are offered to a niche group of individuals, and a "drivers car" only makes up a fraction of the buying market. The s2k was a great car, but it was not versatile enough to fit the needs of an average driver, aka not being practical enough. Which is one of many reasons why its sales declined. In addition to a ever changing economy. Basically the marketing analysis supports that the small sports car segment is a financial death trap for most auto makers.
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:20 PM   #4
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Welcome to ft86club!

Glad to hear you found what you've been searching for in the FR-S/BRZ

When you have a chance, you should introduce yourself in the New Members thread and be sure to check out the Southwest region section.
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prest1ge View Post
Why the s2000 did so poorly in the US boggled my mind. Please don't flame me too hard as everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but why would anyone pick anything else within the s2k's price range? GTI: FWD and poor reliability. MS3: FWD and ugly exterior. Mustang GT: heavy, pathetic HP for the engine size (pre-5.0 days), love-hate looks. The list goes on--any car you name, it is in some way inferior to the s2000.
For one thing, the car was produced for 10 years, or did you overlook that? If it sold so poorly, then why would they keep producing it?

And to answer your other question, maybe some people don't consider a 2-seater convertible with a stiff suspension and torqueless motor to be practical? Some people don't care about drivetrain either.

The S2000 is a pretty godlike car. My best friend has one and I like the drive, but it probably was too hardcore for those people that daily drive. It isn't for everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prest1ge View Post
Why have the japanese giants given up on their driver's car heritage? No more supra, rx7, s2000, nsx, and even rsx. And why are the somewhat sporty cars becoming uglier and porkier? 370z was the strongest contender at the time but had me in some doubt due to it's weird, roundish shape (the 350z was much more attractive IMO) and brute force design of a v6 to compensate its porkiness.
Because those cars were made in a time when the Japanese economy was roaring on all cylinders so to speak (Google Japan's bubble economy). They had the resources and cash flow to make crazy twin turbo behemoths. The bubble popped in the early 2000's which is why the Supra, RX-7, Skyline, Silvia and other cars were mostly dead by 2003.

Cars are getting heavier and 'porkier' because of more stringent safety and crash standards. Unlike years gone by, many governments mandate that stuff like dual passenger airbags and side airbags as well as electronic assists such as ABS and traction control have to be standard equipment. Uglier? That's a subjective matter; though I agree that cars aren't as nice looking as they used to be but that's due to the design language of this generation of automobiles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by prest1ge View Post

Thank you subaru and toyota for finally waking up and building a car to fill in the void of this niche market. And thanks to all the forum members who have been contributing finds to this forum, making my wait a lot more exciting and hopeful.
But hey at least you're enthusiastic about the new car(s). Just do your homework and try to think outside of your own wants and your questions will answer them selves.
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:52 PM   #6
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Great first post, prest1ge.
(FWIW, I'm guessing S2000 sales for the north american region may have suffered from an absence of an auto transmission. Much to the delight of Miata product management I expect.)
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:03 PM   #7
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Welcome prest1ge. Hope you enjoy it here.

I'm just a little curious. You seem to know a lot about cars and is a car guy like us but how come you only learned about the FT-86 a few months ago? It seems to me that Toyota did a pretty good job advertising this car for a couple of years at least.
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:45 PM   #8
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FWD has become popular because it is a cheaper way to build a car and the car makers have told us about all the great things FWD offers without mentioning the drawbacks.

Same goes for the boxer engine. More expensive to manufacture but it has some definite advantages.

This all goes to what Toyota has been saying designed by passion and not committee

Dan
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prest1ge View Post
why would anyone pick anything else within the s2k's price range? GTI: FWD and poor reliability. MS3: FWD and ugly exterior. Mustang GT: heavy, pathetic HP for the engine size (pre-5.0 days), love-hate looks.
Maybe because these cars are all about $10k cheaper and more practical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prest1ge View Post
The list goes on--any car you name, it is in some way inferior to the s2000.
STi, EVO, 370Z, Mustang Cobra, and more are in the s2k's price range. Yes they are in some way inferior, but the same can be said about the s2k being in some way inferior to each one of those cars.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:31 PM   #10
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I will be selling my 2008 335i coupe/sports/6mt for a BRZ.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:42 PM   #11
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I will be selling my 2008 335i coupe/sports/6mt for a BRZ.
Smart move prior to factory warranty runs out.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:43 PM   #12
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Great first post!
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:50 PM   #13
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Great first post!
That cause our standards have been set low recently by all the new threads. jk


I agree the S2000 was a great car for what it was. But it was getting expensive and wasn't as practical for a DD/only car. The BRZ should help fix that.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:51 PM   #14
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I had and loved an S2K for 6+ years. I think the S2K suffered a lot from it's 10 year run with no real changes. Hard to sell a $34k car when an identical used one sells for $10k. The few times I took mine to the stealership they'd always try to show me a new one, it made no sense at all why I'd pay $20k to get one exactly like mine, except in a color not quite as good. It wasn't selling in great enough numbers, though, to justify a redesign. At some point in the 00s, Honda stopped believing in the 'power of dreams' and just started caring about what sold. Everything had to make a profit or die because they'd built brand recognition that didn't need halo cars, F1, etc. anymore. Sad yes, but it is a business I suppose.

To me the NSX concept shows they're feeling the pressure of Hyundai.
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