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BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe


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Old 10-28-2022, 11:58 PM   #1
lapsio
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How many miles FA20 engines can survive with track use?

I know it's really generic question but it comes from fact that multiple people tell me that "I'll break the car if I'll keep driving like this". And by driving like this they mean clutch kicking, aggressive gear shifting, redlining this thing all the time on daily basis and so on, so on... I'd say it's safe to compare to track use (maybe not exactly but let's just take some well known, worst case reference point).

On the other hand I'm trying to not hammer it on cold, always waiting for oil to get to 80-90 deg before crossing 3k rpm, always monitoring oil temps to not exceed 125 deg C, using motorsport grade high HSTS oil, changing oil and filters every 10k km, using high octane, high quality fuel, regularly maintaining car etc...

So I really wonder - apart from consumables like clutch, bushings, suspension components, tires, breaks etc - is this car going to fall apart significantly faster just from driving it hard? Are there any non-consumable parts that may easily fail due to hard/track driving? Us it gonna start burning oil hust from redlining? Is there any way to prevent such damage with some additional maintenance or better driving technique? Basically "Is there anything I can do to be still able to drive like an idiot and not trash my car completely in 2 years?". And how soon should I expect failures caused by hard driving to show up.

Last edited by lapsio; 10-29-2022 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 10-29-2022, 11:41 AM   #2
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I know it's really generic question but it comes from fact that multiple people tell me that "I'll break the car if I'll keep driving like this". And by driving like this they mean clutch kicking, aggressive gear shifting, redlining this thing all the time on daily basis and so on, so on... I'd say it's safe to compare to track use (maybe not exactly but let's just take some well known, worst case reference point).

On the other hand I'm trying to not hammer it on cold, always waiting for oil to get to 80-90 deg before crossing 3k rpm, always monitoring oil temps to not exceed 125 deg C, using motorsport grade high HSTS oil, changing oil and filters every 10k km, using high octane, high quality fuel, regularly maintaining car etc...

So I really wonder - apart from consumables like clutch, bushings, suspension components, tires, breaks etc - is this car going to fall apart significantly faster just from driving it hard? Are there any non-consumable parts that may easily fail due to hard/track driving? Us it gonna start burning oil hust from redlining? Is there any way to prevent such damage with some additional maintenance or better driving technique? Basically "Is there anything I can do to be still able to drive like an idiot and not trash my car completely in 2 years?". And how soon should I expect failures caused by hard driving to show up.
Donít drive like an idiot. Respect your equipment. Iíd hate to be the guy that buys your car when youíre done thrashing it. Regardless, keep the oil changed.
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Old 10-29-2022, 02:48 PM   #3
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that's assuming he ever sells it.

increased abuse means increased maintenance.

no one is really going to be able to give you a solid answer, as every abuse is different.
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Old 10-29-2022, 02:55 PM   #4
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Don’t drive like an idiot. Respect your equipment. I’d hate to be the guy that buys your car when you’re done thrashing it. Regardless, keep the oil changed.
How to. I mean it's sports car. I'm not going to drive 1500 rpm on 6th gear in city. If I wanted such experience I'd get Skoda Superb or some other boat. It's lightweight rwd drivers car, it's meant to be driven hard. If it's not ootb, then how do I prepare it to be driven hard. How do you properly drive hard without damaging your car? What actions are most harmful to car and what things I should avoid? (or what things I should upgrade because they were not prepared for hard driving out of factory). Are there some guides about proper and responsible driving like an idiot?

I mean I'm not driving like in GTA across pavements, curbs, grass, potholes, speedbumps at 100 kph xD But still I do pretty much daily drive it similarly to how I'm driving my MX5 NB on track days and Miata Challenge events - really high rpm to squeeze every last hp from underpowered engine, quick shifting, quick clutch operation. I mean sure I'm doing my best rev matching but when you shift quickly it will always "kick" a bit and I believe synchros are not too happy. Also I'm having some problems with wheelhop occasionally when launching and everyone who feels wheelhop immediately screams that oh my gawd car is gonna fall apart. Basically stress you experience during beating your best laps on track days... but daily.

And while I don't really worry about my MX5 in a sense - when I was buying it, engine already burned oil and it already required some work so I just accepted fact that you need full engine rebuild from time to time - I wouldn't like to just trash BRZ and decide after 5 years well sh*t, time to get rid of it. I hate when people just give up on cars and I don't want to be that guy who kills another BRZ hence I'd like to do everything I can to mitigate stress and damage caused by harsh driving - from both sides - car maintenance / build up as well as adjusting my driving to avoid those absolutely worst actions.

I'm not afraid of maintenance costs, servicing and small repairs - I'm more afraid of serious damage that is fatal to car. Inb4 no I'm probably not planning to sell it. When I'll decide I'm done with it as daily I'll most likely try to replace my MX5 with it as dedicated track car but it'd be desirable that it survived until then, hopefully without rerebuilding engine 7 times along the way xD

But I guess it's understandable that it's hard to give any advise just from reading descriptions as indeed it's hard to describe what each person means and perceives as driving hard :/

Last edited by lapsio; 10-29-2022 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 10-29-2022, 03:50 PM   #5
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Maintain it and it will be fine, use the appropriate oil. I have over 100k on my car and a ton of track days. Get UOA periodically to gauge engine health. There are guys running their cars with more miles and way more track days than me with healthy engines.
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Old 10-29-2022, 10:41 PM   #6
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Maintenance is huge factor. If you are in doubt with "X"part or "Y" fluid, replace it/them.
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Old 10-29-2022, 10:48 PM   #7
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Mine is a stock FA slapped to a Borg Warner EFR 7163 twinscroll turbo with low 400whp. I track it consistently throughout the year. Like others have said, maintenance is key. Mines been heckin reliable as I've been boosted for ~60,000 miles.

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Old 10-29-2022, 11:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
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...but when you shift quickly it will always "kick" a bit and I believe synchros are not too happy. Also I'm having some problems with wheelhop occasionally when launching and everyone who feels wheelhop immediately screams that oh my gawd car is gonna fall apart. ...
so the thing to understand here is the shock load you're putting on every bit of the mechanical bits.

when you pop the clutch like that, you jerk every bit of the driveline from the motor, the trans, the drive shaft, rear diff, half shafts, and rear wheel bearings. it's putting additional stress on every single part that rotates, which means that every single rotating part will need to be replaced much faster than before. 'lifetime' before, might mean only 50-100k km now.

i rev my car out for fun. every time it leaves the garage, it bumps the rev limiter.

since the first day i got the car, i hung a necklace and pendant from the mirror. don't feel right driving a car without something off the mirror--habit from the past. anyways, most times, the pendant doesn't bounce. doesn't move. and when it does, i feel bad.

daily driving the car, it gets better, more natural, more unconscious, to be paying attention to what that pendant is doing. if the pendant bounces, it means the driveline is being unnecessarily taxed...

find your rhythm with the car-- the car's providing feedback to what works and what doesn't. if you're snapping the car into the next gear, you're the one avoiding what the car is telling you.
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Old 10-30-2022, 12:11 AM   #9
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Be smooth. Limit mechanical and thermal extremes. Replace parts before they wear enough to damage other parts. I need some tougher CV joints. Outers have a bit too much lash.
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Old 10-30-2022, 12:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckls View Post
Mine is a stock FA slapped to a Borg Warner EFR 7163 twinscroll turbo with low 400whp. I track it consistently throughout the year. Like others have said, maintenance is key. Mines been heckin reliable as I've been boosted for ~60,000 miles.

You are pretty lucky. Boost is a crap shoot with these motors and at near 400WHP guessing your in the 15-18PSI range
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Old 10-30-2022, 11:49 AM   #11
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You'll get better answers on the troll thread
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Old 10-30-2022, 12:46 PM   #12
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34k track miles....stock, original engine, transmission, clutch, TOB.....
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Old 10-31-2022, 10:41 AM   #13
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You'll get better answers on the troll thread
To answer this title.

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Old 10-31-2022, 06:29 PM   #14
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Buy cheap hard tires instead of kicking the clutch.
Maintenance, maintenance, maintenance.
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