Will you stay with the 86 brand for the future ?

[Killerbee]

Originally Posted by humfrz

... The next day, my sister "borrowed" his car - and never returned it -

The rest of the story is - that he then drove his golf cart into town - and got a ticket -


humfrz

wait - what? You cannot start this awesome story and just leave it at this. I need more details (on both, what happened to the car, and how do you get a ticket in a golf cart)
Pleaaassseeee!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by wbradley

Make that a turbo inline 4, pass on the BMW part though, mainly due to economics. This will likely necessitate the addition of pyrotechnic lifters for the hood due to safety which might push the price up a bit which would be an issue. This was likely the primary reason for the partnership with Subaru, cheapest way to get the COG down as well as a enable a low-sculpted hood line. Plus, Subaru had the production capacity.

My wife wanted to name our son Lucas and for some reason I didn't like the name. Now I know why. LOL

The twins are probably the last mass produced economically priced gas-only sports car. The trend will be toward hybrid, electric and eventually fuel cell vehicles. Think of every Japanese manufacturer, who else will make a true sports car for well under $30K? In 2012, the FR-S was $26K CD$, the next gen base will probably be $29.9K. The only other possible viable gas sports econo model I could envision would be like the Toyota S-FR provided it meets safety and they'd probably still be pushing the high $20's.

German manufacturers are definitely out on this one as are American. Koreans will not build a true sports car.

There are good sport sedan options though CUVs are consuming that market.

This begs the old question of when do the changes become so great that it is no longer an 86 but a totally different car with that name? Whether people like it or not the 86 is a joint venture that uses a boxer engine. Any version that does away with that boxer engine isn't a second gen 86 it is a first gen something else.
There will be no next gen anything without a joint venture. It just no longer makes sense for anybody to go it alone with an economical sports car. Should the S-FR buck the odds and actually get built (which I seriously doubt at this point) it will be a joint venture with somebody.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

This begs the old question of when do the changes become so great that it is no longer an 86 but a totally different car with that name? Whether people like it or not the 86 is a joint venture that uses a boxer engine. Any version that does away with that boxer engine isn't a second gen 86 it is a first gen something else.
There will be no next gen anything without a joint venture. It just no longer makes sense for anybody to go it alone with an economical sports car. Should the S-FR buck the odds and actually get built (which I seriously doubt at this point) it will be a joint venture with somebody.

S-FR ain't coming to North America in any event.

If the fundamentals; front engine, rear drive and sports car are met, then it fills the FR-S niche. Perhaps they might not refer to it as the 86 since the original logo showed the opposing boxer pistons. Maybe call it the Levin. In reality the boxer engine is a pain in the ass wedged between 2 tight frame rails (or whatever they are called on unibody). The spark plug change is proof since on any other car all you need is a spark plug socket, gapper and some dielectric. With this car you either pay a mechanic for 4 hours to jack the engine according to the book or cut your hands up and need to collect all the little flex sockets, magnet, rubber tubing, etc to do it yourself in ~ 2.5 hours first time or ~ 1 hour if experienced.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by wbradley

S-FR ain't coming to North America in any event.

If the fundamentals; front engine, rear drive and sports car are met, then it fills the FR-S niche. Perhaps they might not refer to it as the 86 since the original logo showed the opposing boxer pistons. Maybe call it the Levin. In reality the boxer engine is a pain in the ass wedged between 2 tight frame rails (or whatever they are called on unibody). The spark plug change is proof since on any other car all you need is a spark plug socket, gapper and some dielectric. With this car you either pay a mechanic for 4 hours to jack the engine according to the book or cut your hands up and need to collect all the little flex sockets, magnet, rubber tubing, etc to do it yourself in ~ 2.5 hours first time or ~ 1 hour if experienced.

Celica

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Killerbee

wait - what? You cannot start this awesome story and just leave it at this. I need more details (on both, what happened to the car, and how do you get a ticket in a golf cart)
Pleaaassseeee!

Well, OK, most folks don't encourage me ….

My father, even after he forgot to disconnect the gas hose form his car and drove off, refused to quit driving. He wouldn't give up the keys to his car to my brother or sister. So, they conjured up this story that my sister's car broke down and the repair was going to take a long time and she needed a car to get to work.

So, my father lent her his car. Then they explained that they weren't going to give it back because he had no business (at age 94) to be driving.

Since my father lived in a golf course community, he had an electric golf cart. So, he figured he would just drive his golf cart into town (about 2 miles away). Well, the car was not licensed to be driven on a public highway, so, the local police stopped him and gave him a ticket.


THE END


humfrz

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Celica

Celicas were nice cars of the past! I don't know what market research says but corporations are listening. I read someone commenting elsewhere that people begged for the FR-S, then when they made it , it didn't sell. It did, but maybe not the way it could if a model was adjusted for more up-to-date demand.

My feeling regards Celicas:
~ '72 young neighbour across the street had a new Celica (shaped like a white rice grain it was). Cool and very different. A nice small car in '72! Nobody talked about it but at age 8, I noticed it!
I drove my boss's '82 Supra 5 speed in '84. The seat was so low and he had a cushion to prop himself up. It was a 6 cylinder cruiser version of the 4 cylinder Celica.
My Mom drove a brand new red Celica GTS in '90. It was revolutionary in how the curved body panels were stamped for that time and plus it was one of the last cars with pop-up headlights and it had the best sounding OEM CD audio system I had ever heard.
There is no more Solara (had '06 XLE convertible too).
Between Celica and Solara there is a coupe but it's not the twins. I am not offended if they retire the form factor, who knows, substantial gas engines will be a luxury in a decade. Its time for Supra and twins maybe, I wouln't bet on it. Like Scion, it might have been a phase in Toyota's life that isn't necessarily the next vision.
Electrification is upon us, people.

[NARFALICIOUS]

Originally Posted by evoto86

I know this sounds like I work in Toyota's marketing department but I'm genuinely interested.

With the new 86 generation confirmed by Toyota Australia Exec's who claim its coming. How many of you are going to stick with the 86 brand, we all know these types of vehicles entry level sports cars. The turn around for ownership is not very long as the people who tend to buy them (20-25 yo's) sell them on to a younger driver looking for his/her first taste of a sporty car, and upscale to something more expensive or go for something completely different.

I feel like for me all it will take is the same concept but with an engine worthy of the chassis im not asking for big power just an engine that's going to make the car exciting, perhaps more displacement to address the number 1 issue with the platform which is Torque. I don't think anybody would complain if the car never see's a boxer engine again despite the low centre of gravity preaching.

My garage only has limited space. I do not plan on selling my 2016.
Don't think I'd get a 2nd gen unless there was a very good reason to.4 (cough).

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by evoto86

Interesting reading some comments its almost a split between people who say they have no plans to ever get rid of their 86/BRZ and those who want to buy something completely different, not a lot of people saying they are keen on the second generation.

I know we don't know what the second generation is gonna be like, but I'm confident if Toyota/Subaru manage to recreate the same magic and ingredients as the first generation only much better it would change a lot of the minds of people saying they are sticking to the first generation.

some of it has a lot to do with the state of upcoming vehicle regulations, and less about the specific car.

i am here specifically because a new brz was more cost effective than getting nearly any used 20+ year old 240zx or similar to the same reliability state. around me, any 90's rwd cars are all heavily modded, and still going for around $8k-15k for what amounts to a good chassis. by the time i added up all the replacement parts most of the cars would need to return to a state that i could trust that they work every time i turn the key and will get me to work reliably, i was at around $8-10k in parts/labor(because i didn't have the space to do it myself).

i never really cared about the history of the nameplate, and truthfully, still don't much care. i'm here because i wanted as analog car as i could get. the only 'upgrades' i really wanted were fuel injection and heated seats.

moving forward, with the reverse camera and soon-to-be automatic braking and/or lane keep regulations, i just don't have an interest in a newer version of any car, as the laws that all news cars must abide by are changing to a state that will no longer allow such a car as first-gen 86 to exist. and fundamentally, that's why i don't care anymore about the 2nd gen.

while i have no doubt that the engineers at subaru and toyota would be able to keep the tactile feel of the platform while driving, something fundamental to that feeling is lost when control is pulled away from the driver at sporadic instances so a computer can 'correct' for a perceived situation, for better or worse.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by soundman98

some of it has a lot to do with the state of upcoming vehicle regulations, and less about the specific car.

i am here specifically because a new brz was more cost effective than getting nearly any used 20+ year old 240zx or similar to the same reliability state. around me, any 90's rwd cars are all heavily modded, and still going for around $8k-15k for what amounts to a good chassis. by the time i added up all the replacement parts most of the cars would need to return to a state that i could trust that they work every time i turn the key and will get me to work reliably, i was at around $8-10k in parts/labor(because i didn't have the space to do it myself).

i never really cared about the history of the nameplate, and truthfully, still don't much care. i'm here because i wanted as analog car as i could get. the only 'upgrades' i really wanted were fuel injection and heated seats.

moving forward, with the reverse camera and soon-to-be automatic braking and/or lane keep regulations, i just don't have an interest in a newer version of any car, as the laws that all news cars must abide by are changing to a state that will no longer allow such a car as first-gen 86 to exist. and fundamentally, that's why i don't care anymore about the 2nd gen.

while i have no doubt that the engineers at subaru and toyota would be able to keep the tactile feel of the platform while driving, something fundamental to that feeling is lost when control is pulled away from the driver at sporadic instances so a computer can 'correct' for a perceived situation, for better or worse.

And a lot of it has to do with we know absolutely zero about the upcoming car. Hard to jump on the bandwagon when it is still in the barn and the band hasn't even gathered their instruments yet.

Some of the new tech can indeed be intrusive if you let it but the whole idea is simply not to put the car into the position where it thinks you are going to die or kill somebody else. My wife car has it but it is really rare where it kicks in. Even when it does it gives you plenty of warning before it acts. If you don't react then it kicks in. I tried to run down some boxes I piled in the street and there was no way it would let me if I didn't vary the controls but at the same time it would let me plow right into them if I accelerated as it as screaming stop. Some of it is actually really nice to have if you do a lot of highway cruising. I would pay extra to have that adaptive cruise and the back up warning for movement is pretty sweet! You also still have the ability to turn it all off so they won't bother you if you don't want them.

[mrg666]

2016 to date ... still happy with my FRS. Not just driving; maintaining, modifying, fixing as well. I guess this is a bond I could have as close as it can get between me and a machine. I will keep it tip top as long as it is with me because it is worth it and because it is my car. No commitment though ... it is still just a machine that might be replaced or given to my son in a couple years.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

This begs the old question of when do the changes become so great that it is no longer an 86 but a totally different car with that name? Whether people like it or not the 86 is a joint venture that uses a boxer engine. Any version that does away with that boxer engine isn't a second gen 86 it is a first gen something else.
There will be no next gen anything without a joint venture. It just no longer makes sense for anybody to go it alone with an economical sports car. Should the S-FR buck the odds and actually get built (which I seriously doubt at this point) it will be a joint venture with somebody.

The Celica went through massive changes and still stayed Celica.

I reckon they can milk the 86 name for a bit.

[why?]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

The Celica went through massive changes and still stayed Celica.

I reckon they can milk the 86 name for a bit.

not really. They just kept the name, but the front wheel drive last gen Celica had absolutely nothing in common with the 70's rear drive version that spawned the Supra.

[86MLR]

Pre 85 RWD

Post 85 FWD, and a sneaky AWD.

In saying that, the only good one was the first gen, they just got fatter and lamer with each new generation.

IMO anyway

Opinions may vary

[R_E_L]

I would definitely consider a second gen once I have paid off my BRZ, as I don't plan on getting rid of it. But it would have to be an improvement on the current car, which will be difficult as I imagine any second gen will probably end up bigger and heavier with no guarantee of significant power increase or improved driving dynamics.

I'm not really interested in a new generation that is the same or worse for more money. But a better car that is still about driver enjoyment in a small, lightweight package? Definitely. I think any money spent on development should go to improving torque while at least maintaining current handling characteristics and staying under 3000 lbs. I don't need a bunch of crazy tech and automatic/electronic safety features adding weight just to cover for poor driver awareness. Put the money into the driving experience.

One of the reasons I bought new over used is because I wanted to see a second generation and other cars like it.