Steering? 2nd gen BRZ GR86 vs. 1st gen?

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I don't remember many people complaining about the 1st gen steering feel. If the 2nd gen steering is an entirely new setup, then it makes sense they were trying to achieve a different result.

which could be to cut costs.....keep that in mind

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by PBR

It is the end of an Era. And as a 43 year old "purist" I had been waiting for a paradigm shift to super lightweight cars with less power. The needle swung the other way over the last 30 years and yeah, these are some of the last, best ICE cars yet made. But I still like my '22 BRZ more 🤣 cheers 🍻

so true, I've been waiting for this paradigm shift to super lightweight cars too but certainly it's shifting to the other direction. It's the era of the two ton sedans now.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by Petah78

I have to admit, to this day, I still don't quite get what is "steering feel". I have hooned decently hard on the street and tracked all of the fun cars I have owned and can't conclude on this even after purposely looking for it. What I noticed is weight, speed and accuracy between all the different makes/models.

Maybe go Kart racing? the feedback on those things I believe is impossible to miss due to their ultra-light weight and their direct connectivity.



For me, steering feel and feedback can be a deal-breaker. I walked away from buying some really good sports cars because the steering felt so numb.



For me, how the car feels is more important than outright performance.

[cueball89]

Has anyone tried changing the steering rack bushings on a gen2? Maybe the gen1 bushings fit?

[dragoontwo]

Originally Posted by cueball89

Has anyone tried changing the steering rack bushings on a gen2? Maybe the gen1 bushings fit?

Coming from a '20 to the '22, I feel that they improved the bushings in the rack. Going to the older bushing I feel would introduce more slop into the steering.

[PBR]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

but isn't weight itself feedback on its own?



I mean cars with no power steering are touted having superior feedback yet they can be really heavy for it.



I know some manufacturers just artificially include a heavy steering wheel just make you believe you are having more feedback but I never felt the 1st gen FT86 was among them. The heaviness to me is real feedback.

I was reaching a bit after a few. It wasn't. And steering feel is one of the things that sold me on the car despite disliking the characteristics of the engine. Just sold a GLA 250. It's like a hot hatch on stilts. Sort of. DCT. It has artificially heavy steering with little feedback. So I don't believe weight is necessarily a form of feedback unless it's actually adding to the experience. This was taking away. And on the flip side I had an EVO X. Light steering that had a very quick ratio. The thing just darted in. Because it's hiding a 3600 lbs sedan with heavy front weight bias. I also found the Evora to have better steering feel over both my Elises despite the Elises having much heavier steering and a manual rack. My only complaint about the new car's steering is that, initially it doesn't weigh up as nicely. But after that, I find more feedback, precision and consistency. But I'd really love to get 2, stock, side by side and truly compare. Or get a definitive answer from a Subaru engineer.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by PBR

My only complaint about the new car's steering is that, initially it doesn't weigh up as nicely. But after that, I find more feedback, precision and consistency. But I'd really love to get 2, stock, side by side and truly compare.

I think that might be part of the issue - most people (myself included) aren't able to really determine the nuances of steering feel. The initial feel and the feel at 7/10 is more important than feeling that extra 5% when going 10/10. It might be akin to a "showroom mode" in a TV, or headphones with extra bass the sacrifices other tonal qualities (yes, I'm looking at you, Beats). They WOW the average buyer on first impression, but then turn out to be a mediocre product. Luckily the first gen managed to remain a great car in all driving conditions, so we had the cake and could eat it too.

I agree with what Mark said in the Savagegeese review - "now it [the steering] feels like any other car". The first gen felt special to me (while an ND2 Miata I test drove right after felt like a normal car). The second gen lost some of that specialness. Is the second gen a better car? Most certainly. Will it be allow a good driver to drive faster (even disregarding the engine and talking about the stiffness improvements, steering changes, etc.)? For sure. But some people (myself included) prefer the first gen.

Again I'll use the Cayman generations as an example - each one is objectively better, but some people still prefer the 987.

[cueball89]

Originally Posted by dragoontwo

Coming from a '20 to the '22, I feel that they improved the bushings in the rack. Going to the older bushing I feel would introduce more slop into the steering.

Sorry I wasn't clear. What I was trying to get at was if gen1 and gen2 bushings were the same. Would gen1 aftermarket polyurethane bushings work on the gen2?

[Shub Deetle]

I don’t know if this helps or not, but I had a chance to compare my 2017 86 to the new BRZ. The 86 seemed planted to the road as if it had no power steering. You would have to nudge the steering wheel to change course. It felt very secure to me, almost like you could take your hands off the wheel and it would drive in a straight line by itself. The BRZ, on the other hand, would respond with subtle adjustments to the steering; the perception being that it seemed lighter and more nimble.

I traded my 86 for the BRZ.

[dragoontwo]

Originally Posted by cueball89

Sorry I wasn't clear. What I was trying to get at was if gen1 and gen2 bushings were the same. Would gen1 aftermarket polyurethane bushings work on the gen2?

The part numbers for the bushings did change. Unclear if there are any actual differences though. Yes they are the same size as the first gen. I have a set of delrin bushings on standby left over from my gen 1, but haven't really felt the need to use them. I don't feel the jigglyness that I did on gen 1.

[PBR]

Again I'll use the Cayman generations as an example - each one is objectively better, but some people still prefer the 987.[/QUOTE]


I prefer 987s steering. And there's a huge chance if I drive both gen twins back to back I'd prefer the gen 1 steering as well. Its the first thing I noticed in my '22. I might go look for one in a car lot somewhere. It's still fun as hell to drive so why not lol?

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by PBR

Again I'll use the Cayman generations as an example - each one is objectively better, but some people still prefer the 987.


I prefer 987s steering. And there's a huge chance if I drive both gen twins back to back I'd prefer the gen 1 steering as well. Its the first thing I noticed in my '22. I might go look for one in a car lot somewhere. It's still fun as hell to drive so why not lol?

Really? The 987 felt too sterile to me. It was good but I didn’t feel it was what everyone raved about it.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Really? The 987 felt too sterile to me. It was good but I didn’t feel it was what everyone raved about it.

Not to hijack the thread even more, but do you mean the 987 compared to the Twins (of any generation) or compared to the later Caymans (981 and 982/718)? My original comment was about the Cayman generations among themselves, not compared to the Twins.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

Not to hijack the thread even more, but do you mean the 987 compared to the Twins (of any generation) or compared to the later Caymans (981 and 982/718)? My original comment was about the Cayman generations among themselves, not compared to the Twins.

In general as a car. The feedback just felt, filtered to me. I don't know how else to put it. Don't get me wrong, great car though and a bit nit picky of me. I just can't afford to replace one so it's off my list.

Edit: Sorry it was a 981, not a 987.