Impressions on 2022 BRZ vs. my 2018 BRZ

[Samba86]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Heres how i look at it:

13-16 first gen = A 20 year old teenager.
17-20 first gen refresh = A 30 year old young adult.
22+ second gen = A 35+ year old adult.

That's how i feel the cars "matured" over time.

As we see more of this kinda thing, I think the perception of the '22 models being inherently more mature looking will fade.

[dragoontwo]

Mary Kay GR86?

[mycrors7]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Posted this in my build thread but it also reminded me of this one.
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Having driven my 2nd gen for 500 miles, I thought I'd post some thoughts on how it differs from my 2013 FR-S which is now back to stock. Putting aside the power bump, a lot of the changes for the 2nd gen (higher quality interior, lighter steering, less notchy gearshift, softer damped suspension, softer cushioned seats, less thrashy engine sound) seem designed to make the 2nd gen more refined and premium. It's like the 1st gen was built to feel like an old-school Japanese sports car (think S2000 or Miata), whereas the 2nd gen is trying to crib off Porsche. The added low-end torque only adds to the sensation of refinement. Driving around town, this 2nd gen gives me a similar vibe to my old 987.2 Boxster S or mk6 GTI. I'm honestly impressed that Subaru/Toyota were able to add this level of refinement and power to the 2nd gen with minimal weight gain (57 lbs over my 2013 FR-S). These changes significantly increase the versatility/bandwidth of the 2nd gen with minimal downsides. It's a lot more enjoyable driving around town at a relaxed pace and I find myself driving just to relax and check out nice views. The 2nd gen does a good job playing the role of a GT car in a way that my FR-S never could.

That said, I see why 1st gen owners feel the 2nd gen has lost some character. I think it has as well. A lot of the 2nd gen changes follow the evolution of modern sports cars (refinement, insulation, torque). The 1st gen offers more of a unique driving experience given that it's 10 years old now and even when new tried to impart the feel of a bygone era in Japanese cars (fun but torqueless tincans).

Anyway both platforms are great and I wish I could keep them both.

you mentioned insulation... theres absolutely zero insulation in the new gen. ive ripped apart half the interior to add sound deadening lol

i pretty much agree with everything else youve mentioned. Though, that raw feeling the car lacks can be brought back very easily with some minor and easy upgrades(motor/trans mounts, shifter bushings/short shifter, mtech clutch spring and shifter springs will all change how everything feels)

for a modern car, its still definitely a lot more "raw" compared to other sporty cars on the market.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Samba86

As we see more of this kinda thing, I think the perception of the '22 models being inherently more mature looking will fade.

Repainted in pink and trashed already?!?! That didn't take long.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by drift86

Yes, the flywheel feels heavier.

I actually did this test in both cars. Left the car in neutral and stabbed the throttle by flooring it and releasing it as quickly as I can. The rpm hardly moved in the second gen. The first gen reved up about 1000rpm higher.

That's emissions friendly throttle mapping. Not sure if you had your tuned or not but my stock 86 OG had just the same delay if you gunned it in neutral from idle. Mucho delay on the initial depress. I wouldn't be surprised if the flywheel is a touch lighter on the new gen (like the drive shaft has been), because it has a little bit more chatter to my ear. Hard to be sure, it is pretty much the same transmission outside of peening and a new toyota tranny oil formulation (as far as I know).

[Blighty]

All the raw stuff on here is funny.

Its like all of a sudden superior suspension refinement to get even better road handling WHILE able to bottom out less is a negative?

I mean making your car ride worse is probably the simplest thing you can possible do if you want to change your car. Add a tower strut for instance. The combination of a stiff chassis and better dampened and compliant suspension is only a GOOD thing.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

This reminds me of progression of daily-bility of cars - Porsche guys laugh at dailying a Lotus. Lotus guys laugh at dailying a Caterham. Caterham guys laugh at dailying a motorcycle. Motorcycle guys laugh at dailying a bicycle. Bicycle guys, well, I never cared for bicycles so I have no idea what they consider impossible to daily

I agree that the Twins strike an awesome balance of livability and driver engagement, and are indeed more fun to drive than significantly more expensive and powerful cars. The fact that we have a second generation is really a cause to celebrate, even if some do prefer the first gen.

Unless you are naked, bareback on a horse, don't talk to me about raw.

[Flarpswitch]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Color plays a BIG part in that. The Hakone color draws middle-aged women like moths to a flame! I get many times more comments than I did even with the Lava.
Most people would not even notice the difference between gens if it was white black or silver.

There was a time that being pursued by middle-aged cougars was the last thing on my agenda. Today, I'm pushing 72 and a cougar would be a woman skipping Majong and sneaking out of the retirement home looking for some fun. Attracting middle-aged women seems like something I might consider. I don't think of my car as a chick magnet, but you never know.

[Flarpswitch]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

Repainted in pink and trashed already?!?! That didn't take long.

If you are a big muckity muck at Mary Kay, don't you get a pink Caddie?

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by Blighty

All the raw stuff on here is funny.

Its like all of a sudden superior suspension refinement to get even better road handling WHILE able to bottom out less is a negative?

I mean making your car ride worse is probably the simplest thing you can possible do if you want to change your car. Add a tower strut for instance. The combination of a stiff chassis and better dampened and compliant suspension is only a GOOD thing.

IMO, the benefit of "raw" is being able to feel more and know that feeling in relation to how you are handling the car. The kinds of refinement some are refencing here is a loss of that feeling. Yes, it's better. But it's also more numb. As many have said, it's not something one can really say is better than the other - the feeling that is. It's more of a preference. I was used to a more refined feel in vehicles until I got my gen 1 and I completely fell in love with this "raw" feeling of the car. I can't speak for how gen 2 feels in comparison (as I have not been in one), but the few folks that have reviewed it in direct comparison seem to be coming to this conclusion, which again, is just their opinion and not a diss to the 2nd gen in any way.

[PBR]

Then you want a gen 2. Defnitely not more numb. It "feels" quite a bit better. Steering feel is lighter but less is damped out. There is more "feel" despite it being lighter. Also more consistent from lock to lock. No dead spot slightly off center like in my '13. Finger tips and millimeters. The front end is also easier to place due to the increased stiffness and it is noticeable especially if you've owned highly stiff cars like an Evora or an RX8. Not like an S2K which has low torsional rigidity. That makes all 4 wheels do their job better, while providing greater precision and feel. Its a win/win for me The design brief looks like they weren't trying to appeal to a broader consumer base, they actually read all the true enthusiast's letters and responded in kind. My opinion anyways.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

IMO, the benefit of "raw" is being able to feel more and know that feeling in relation to how you are handling the car. The kinds of refinement some are refencing here is a loss of that feeling. Yes, it's better. But it's also more numb. As many have said, it's not something one can really say is better than the other - the feeling that is. It's more of a preference. I was used to a more refined feel in vehicles until I got my gen 1 and I completely fell in love with this "raw" feeling of the car. I can't speak for how gen 2 feels in comparison (as I have not been in one), but the few folks that have reviewed it in direct comparison seem to be coming to this conclusion, which again, is just their opinion and not a diss to the 2nd gen in any way.

I bought the OG 86 in 2012, owned it for 8 years. Its remarkable how similar you feel when you get in the car. The difference in how it handles bumps are mostly felt on the upper end of harshness. You still feel the road as you would expect to. But I do get it - feeling bumps are part of the experience. If your looking to replicate it from gen one, I think a few struts will give it to you (and give you a bit better performance).

I hope that you still own your current car when you get to test drive the new one, its really great to have that back to back as you get a full experience and full feel for the changes.

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by Blighty

I bought the OG 86 in 2012, owned it for 8 years. Its remarkable how similar you feel when you get in the car. The difference in how it handles bumps are mostly felt on the upper end of harshness. You still feel the road as you would expect to. But I do get it - feeling bumps are part of the experience. If your looking to replicate it from gen one, I think a few struts will give it to you (and give you a bit better performance).

I hope that you still own your current car when you get to test drive the new one, its really great to have that back to back as you get a full experience and full feel for the changes.

Absolutely. I definitely don't plan on getting rid of mine... ever. And I do hope to own gen 2 some day in the near future. In the mean time, I will continue to read and learn everything about it that's different until that day comes. I got a 2018 gen 1... waited for most of the problems be fixed from the early models Will probably do something similar with gen 2.

[drift86]

Originally Posted by PBR

Then you want a gen 2. Defnitely not more numb. It "feels" quite a bit better. Steering feel is lighter but less is damped out. There is more "feel" despite it being lighter. Also more consistent from lock to lock. No dead spot slightly off center like in my '13. Finger tips and millimeters. The front end is also easier to place due to the increased stiffness and it is noticeable especially if you've owned highly stiff cars like an Evora or an RX8. Not like an S2K which has low torsional rigidity. That makes all 4 wheels do their job better, while providing greater precision and feel. Its a win/win for me The design brief looks like they weren't trying to appeal to a broader consumer base, they actually read all the true enthusiast's letters and responded in kind. My opinion anyways.

I think you are right. Having now taken the new car to a few track events, I forgot all about the lighter steering thing once I was on the track. It was telling me exactly what I needed and doing what I wanted.

But without driving it near the limits, someone may mistakenly think the new car lost some steering feel because of the lightness.