Harrop TVS86 Owners Thread

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by grumpysnapper

ACE Club Sport 400 4-2-1 Headers, with a cat, on the original (brand new) standard motor, using ECUTEK.

90mm on 98ron. (closer to 95ron USA)

Dyno each time with high humidity/high temps, a requested conservative tune and cat fitted. 3 different tuners over 2 years on the same (roller) dyno, with that spec.

But furthering my mistrust of dyno numbers, it also allegedly made 428Nm of torque...

At 300+tq the horsepower will be 375-400+Whp.

[BAT_BRZ]

Anyone getting a ETA on when the kits will be available again? 6 months+?

[FunnyGopher]

Originally Posted by BAT_BRZ

Anyone getting a ETA on when the kits will be available again? 6 months+?

Last I heard back in June, CSG was looking at January - March for restocking the new kit. Harrop told them ~9 months when they stopped manufacturing.

[Brz-123]

Curious why did they stop manufacturing? And common sense tells me they will be retooling and making the kits for and compatible with the new 2.4L.

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[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by Brz-123

Curious why did they stop manufacturing? And common sense tells me they will be retooling and making the kits for and compatible with the new 2.4L.

My understanding is that they are produced in batches, so when stock runs out the decision would be "is it worth another run of these particular units ?"
I think you're right, I'd guess the next batch of units for the twins would be for the new 2.4
It'd be a bonus if there is enough crossover that it might be possible to make a financial case to have two seperate kits produced and in stock.

[BAT_BRZ]

Originally Posted by grumpysnapper

My understanding is that they are produced in batches, so when stock runs out the decision would be "is it worth another run of these particular units ?"
I think you're right, I'd guess the next batch of units for the twins would be for the new 2.4
It'd be a bonus if there is enough crossover that it might be possible to make a financial case to have two seperate kits produced and in stock.

This would make the most sense from a manufacturing stand point. So unlikely to be released for some time. Bummer.

[Sam86]

Saw someone list an 86 with a Harrop kit and was underwhelmed by their performance estimate.

They reckon on E85 with a 85mm pulley and EL headers they were only making 205kw at the wheels.
Again referring back to Harrop websites claimed crank figures, for that same set up (85mm pulley, e85 but with UEL headers instead of EL) they listed it as 305kw crank.
Again crank vs wheel but it’s a 105kw difference so I have no idea what power the kit actually makes.
I would expect 305kw crank to translate to 350wheel hp at a minimum, not 270 (200kw)

Seems to be so much variation and inconsistencies with the claimed numbers. I would assume they don’t just claim the numbers to sell the kit when they offer to install and dyno tune as part of their package cost, so you would be expecting to receive the gains you paid for.

Why else would they list 3 SC packages with varying power numbers. If I paid for their 305kw package and was getting 200kw (which is less than their entry level 225kw package which is supposedly from the SC alone on a stock car with stock exhaust and petrol) then how could they justify me paying full price

[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by Sam86

Saw someone list an 86 with a Harrop kit and was underwhelmed by their performance estimate.

They reckon on E85 with a 85mm pulley and EL headers they were only making 205kw at the wheels.
Again referring back to Harrop websites claimed crank figures, for that same set up (85mm pulley, e85 but with UEL headers instead of EL) they listed it as 305kw crank.
Again crank vs wheel but it’s a 105kw difference so I have no idea what power the kit actually makes.
I would expect 305kw crank to translate to 350wheel hp at a minimum, not 270 (200kw)

Seems to be so much variation and inconsistencies with the claimed numbers. I would assume they don’t just claim the numbers to sell the kit when they offer to install and dyno tune as part of their package cost, so you would be expecting to receive the gains you paid for.

Why else would they list 3 SC packages with varying power numbers. If I paid for their 305kw package and was getting 200kw (which is less than their entry level 225kw package which is supposedly from the SC alone on a stock car with stock exhaust and petrol) then how could they justify me paying full price

Well, I guess no one is forcing you to buy one, and you sound like you are looking for reasons not to fit a Harrop... so find something else you are confident will be much better (and cheaper...).

I've been super happy with mine, and will happily recommend it to anyone that asks....and would buy another one in a heart beat if I ever move onto the 2.4

(Personally I would just stop overthinking the whole dyno/internet/bollocks thing, and just go for a ride in a Harrop fitted BRZ/86 in the real world. No one, absolutely no one, has not been impressed with the performance of my Harrop.)

[Brz-123]

Originally Posted by Sam86

Saw someone list an 86 with a Harrop kit and was underwhelmed by their performance estimate.

They reckon on E85 with a 85mm pulley and EL headers they were only making 205kw at the wheels.
Again referring back to Harrop websites claimed crank figures, for that same set up (85mm pulley, e85 but with UEL headers instead of EL) they listed it as 305kw crank.
Again crank vs wheel but it’s a 105kw difference so I have no idea what power the kit actually makes.
I would expect 305kw crank to translate to 350wheel hp at a minimum, not 270 (200kw)

Seems to be so much variation and inconsistencies with the claimed numbers. I would assume they don’t just claim the numbers to sell the kit when they offer to install and dyno tune as part of their package cost, so you would be expecting to receive the gains you paid for.

Why else would they list 3 SC packages with varying power numbers. If I paid for their 305kw package and was getting 200kw (which is less than their entry level 225kw package which is supposedly from the SC alone on a stock car with stock exhaust and petrol) then how could they justify me paying full price

Put it this way, with a Harrop, cosworth, edelbrock, the PD kits, you will gain +65 to +75 bhp on stock fuel with stock airbox and stock headers, exhaust. Add long tube headers and 2.5 inch catback and you gain +90 to +100 bhp on premium fuel. This is hardware change + tuning. There is no other way. E85, smaller pulley add more but you are pushing more air and fuel, how can you not get results? Stop looking at dyno sheets from various sources and knocking off SC kits.

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[Sam86]

Originally Posted by Brz-123

Put it this way, with a Harrop, cosworth, edelbrock, the PD kits, you will gain +65 to +75 bhp on stock fuel with stock airbox and stock headers, exhaust. Add long tube headers and 2.5 inch catback and you gain +90 to +100 bhp on premium fuel. This is hardware change + tuning. There is no other way. E85, smaller pulley add more but you are pushing more air and fuel, how can you not get results? Stop looking at dyno sheets from various sources and knocking off SC kits.

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I’m not trying to ‘knock off’ the kit
I want/wanted the kit but seeing these realworld power numbers in comparison to what Harrop claim you can make puts me off.
This kit is 13k+ AUD excluding shipping. it’s one of the most expensive FI kits I’ve seen on the market.
If I’m going to be spending that much money and run the legal risks of having the kit which isn’t road legal in most states here- I would at least want the power output to be worth it.
I don’t want to use a turbo kit but for comparisons the HKS/ AVO kits are 6-8k. As I’ve said I’m not expecting to make as much power as a turbo kit running a SC, but at the least I’d be expecting 290wheel as a minimum on e85 before further upgrades/ supporting mods were needed to think the cost is justified

Here is the link- you can see the 305kw crank power that they claim at the top of the page. All key components required are listed below that supposedly will result in the 305kw result. They don’t say you CAN make 305 with this kit + various supporting mods, they say you WILL make this crank power with what’s included
https://www.harrop.com.au/shop/harrop-stage-6-305kw

From that same page
“Quoted power figures are approximate and calculated at the flywheel, based on results on our Harrop HQ dynamometer”

[Brz-123]

Originally Posted by Sam86

I’m not trying to ‘knock off’ the kit
I want/wanted the kit but seeing these realworld power numbers in comparison to what Harrop claim you can make puts me off.
This kit is 13k+ AUD excluding shipping. it’s one of the most expensive FI kits I’ve seen on the market.
If I’m going to be spending that much money and run the legal risks of having the kit which isn’t road legal in most states here- I would at least want the power output to be worth it.
I don’t want to use a turbo kit but for comparisons the HKS/ AVO kits are 6-8k. As I’ve said I’m not expecting to make as much power as a turbo kit running a SC, but at the least I’d be expecting 290wheel as a minimum on e85 before further upgrades/ supporting mods were needed to think the cost is justified

Here is the link- you can see the 305kw crank power that they claim at the top of the page. All key components required are listed below that supposedly will result in the 305kw result. They don’t say you CAN make 305 with this kit + various supporting mods, they say you WILL make this crank power with what’s included
https://www.harrop.com.au/shop/harrop-stage-6-305kw

From that same page
“Quoted power figures are approximate and calculated at the flywheel, based on results on our Harrop HQ dynamometer”

You are, my friend, mixing it all up
1. The Quoted price is representative of a Harrop HQ fitted package. So its drive in drive out. If you import to Murica, you will do a parts only package costing a lot less.
2. This is not just SC, if you see it had headers like Ace ( $1500) and a 2.5 inch catback ($1000) , so $2500 worth extra hardware atleast.
3. Just an SC gives 50% more power. More hardware + less restriction ( one cat less in manifold plus wider exhaust) + E85 should lend another 50% , so I see no big ? to the logic. Hence saying that don't go by various dynos as they can't be compared.

Honestly though , at that power your drive train, gearbox are under stress and will give up sooner than later. Why will you go that far?

You are the customer and you have Edelbrock or used cosworth as another option . Go for them and vote with your money. Let us know how you get on.

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[Sam86]

Originally Posted by Brz-123

You are, my friend, mixing it all up
1. The Quoted price is representative of a Harrop HQ fitted package. So its drive in drive out. If you import to Murica, you will do a parts only package costing a lot less.
2. This is not just SC, if you see it had headers like Ace ( $1500) and a 2.5 inch catback ($1000) , so $2500 worth extra hardware atleast.

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Yea I’m aware of all this, I’m not in America I am local to the Harrop warehouse.
The catback included is XFORCE. Header $500-600 aud, catback, $850 AUD. Harrop flex fuel kit + 85mm pulley - $1600 AUD.
The kit price I referenced (HKS/ AVO) were the full bolt on packages also including the necessary exhaust components.

Harrop SC by itself, is 8.3k AUD.
Stage 3 AVO turbo kit with a full 3’ headerback exhaust, BOV, rated for 290-350whp on regular gas is 7.9k AUD
https://www.carmodsaustralia.com.au/...rbo-Kit-BRZ/86

Do you see the point I’m trying to make?
Harrop SC + exhaust/ supporting mods- Roughly 11-12k AUD (using their cheap included exhaust) and you can expect 260-290 wheel on e85 (based on the numbers people have reported)
Vs
AVO turbo + exhaust/ supporting modes- 7.9k AUD and you can expect 290 wheel as a minimum without e85

Again I don’t want a turbo but you are getting your moneys worth with kits such as AVO, HKS, SME and have a lot more flexibility with tuning your desired power output.
Get the SC and are underwhelmed, nothing you can really do besides build the motor. Wouldn’t be a problem if the price wasn’t significantly higher.
If it was priced slightly higher than the Sprintex kit then you would be getting what you pay for and that price would be more reasonable. If it made the power their website claims (305kw crank on e85 with 85mm pulley and exhaust), it would be worth the price- but from what I’ve seen, it doesn’t

[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by Sam86

Get the SC and are underwhelmed, nothing you can really do besides build the motor. Wouldn’t be a problem if the price wasn’t significantly higher.
If it was priced slightly higher than the Sprintex kit then you would be getting what you pay for and that price would be more reasonable. If it made the power their website claims (305kw crank on e85 with 85mm pulley and exhaust), it would be worth the price- but from what I’ve seen, it doesn’t

I don't get how you can be underwhelmed when you haven't actually experienced the product first hand. The feedback you getting is the opposite, from actual owners.

You can judge something purely on conjecture and/or internet statistics but doing that misses the point... like you said, ultimately you get what you pay for. For me the quality of the product, the reliability, the thoughtfulness of the engineering, the aesthetics, the customer support, the fact I'm supporting a local business and its actual performance all helped me make the decision for buy a Harrop.

If you want something cheaper, then go your hardest.

(But let us know how you feel every time you open your hood and look down at your "cheaper" option... then ask us how we feel when we look down at a Harrop.)

[Sam86]

Originally Posted by grumpysnapper

I don't get how you can be underwhelmed when you haven't actually experienced the product first hand. The feedback you getting is the opposite, from actual owners.

You can judge something purely on conjecture and/or internet statistics but doing that misses the point... like you said, ultimately you get what you pay for. For me the quality of the product, the reliability, the thoughtfulness of the engineering, the aesthetics, the customer support, the fact I'm supporting a local business and its actual performance all helped me make the decision for buy a Harrop.

If you want something cheaper, then go your hardest.

(But let us know how you feel every time you open your hood and look down at your "cheaper" option... then ask us how we feel when we look down at a Harrop.)

I wasn't calling it underwhelming as a personal experience, I was saying from that standpoint that if you get a SC and are underwhelmed by it or it doesn't meet your expectation, there's not much else you can really do to increase the power like you can with a turbo kit before you have to start putting lots of cash into it.

You can say you personally like the kit and that's great. I hope if I paid that much I would be too. But if I was a customer that purchased Harrops "305kw" package and my dyno results were 200kw at the wheels I would feel ripped off. Sure dynos are different but 105kw of loss?? even accounting for dynos reading higher/ lower that is a huge margin


Can I ask you, before you bought your Harrop kit, did you do any NA mods such as E85/ Headers. Have you driven a turbo 86 or any other SC 86 that you are comparing your kit to?