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Old 10-12-2021, 05:18 AM   #1
blueskiesgreenlights
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2020 86 Stock Amp Specs & Stereo Upgrade

Hi,

I recently purchased a 2020 86 Hakone and love everything about the car with two exceptions. First, I'm disappointed with the sound system even after successfully completing FR-S2GT86's amp fix - thanks, by the way, for that outstanding DYI post.

Second, I'm the second owner and the previous owner installed a tolerably loud exhaust system. I assume that it adds a few horses and maybe even improves MPG but it is noisy enough for me to add a sound deadening project to my future tasks. I'm hoping an application of this stuff on the floorboard, doors, and rear wheel wells will allow me to hear the tweeters mentioned below.

This task will be added because I'm re-thinking the car's multimedia system. My immediate concern is the specs on the oem amp mounted in the trunk. Since I'm satisfied with the low end sounds of the door mounted subs I'm considering relocating them to replace the 3.5" speakers in the back seat. Of course, I'll have to cut the panels to accommodate the larger door speakers but as this will likely be my viking ship I'm not worried about resale value.

Since I don't know how the system will sound once it is completed I'm interested in the stock oem specs in the event I decide to replace the oem door speakers, use a spare wheel sub setup or some other space saving solution.

My theory is that the current setup lacks mid-range and the tweeters are weak. Therefore, I purchased a set of Sony XS 162es to address these issues. The Sony allows for a bi-amp setup and I'm inclined to go this route.

Since I'm satisfied with the HU I'm thinking about an Audio Control L7i or AC DQ-61 along with an after market amp. Any suggestions on this?

I know that the above subjects could easily be divided into several posts but in exchange for your tolerance I'll provide a follow up on this relatively low budget upgrade.
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Old 10-12-2021, 06:25 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueskiesgreenlights View Post
Hi,

I recently purchased a 2020 86 Hakone and love everything about the car with two exceptions. First, I'm disappointed with the sound system even after successfully completing FR-S2GT86's amp fix - thanks, by the way, for that outstanding DYI post.

Second, I'm the second owner and the previous owner installed a tolerably loud exhaust system. I assume that it adds a few horses and maybe even improves MPG but it is noisy enough for me to add a sound deadening project to my future tasks. I'm hoping an application of this stuff on the floorboard, doors, and rear wheel wells will allow me to hear the tweeters mentioned below.

This task will be added because I'm re-thinking the car's multimedia system. My immediate concern is the specs on the oem amp mounted in the trunk. Since I'm satisfied with the low end sounds of the door mounted subs I'm considering relocating them to replace the 3.5" speakers in the back seat. Of course, I'll have to cut the panels to accommodate the larger door speakers but as this will likely be my viking ship I'm not worried about resale value.

Since I don't know how the system will sound once it is completed I'm interested in the stock oem specs in the event I decide to replace the oem door speakers, use a spare wheel sub setup or some other space saving solution.

My theory is that the current setup lacks mid-range and the tweeters are weak. Therefore, I purchased a set of Sony XS 162es to address these issues. The Sony allows for a bi-amp setup and I'm inclined to go this route.

Since I'm satisfied with the HU I'm thinking about an Audio Control L7i or AC DQ-61 along with an after market amp. Any suggestions on this?

I know that the above subjects could easily be divided into several posts but in exchange for your tolerance I'll provide a follow up on this relatively low budget upgrade.

I added some information on the stock speakers in this thread here:

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...?t=7843&page=5

Not sure if this was what you were looking for though.

And your welcome on the DIY. I spent quite a bit of time on that to get it just right as to require no further questions needing to be asked.

You say there is no midrange in your system, if I may ask: Are your dash midrange drivers in place and working?
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Old 10-12-2021, 07:19 PM   #3
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both of those audiocontrol units are well known, and will work. however, i would recommend another alternative.

minidsp is just as highly regarded as audiocontrol, and for a similar price, offers a dsp unit with significant adjustability that the audiocontrol modules don't have. personally, being able to adjust settings from the listening position instead of having to listen, run around, tweak, run back around, and re-listen, repeat, is worth the cost of entry alone. the phase adjustments also have proven to be useful in multi-driver setups as well.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/car...-dsp/c-dsp-6x8

personally, i use the dayton audio variation of dsp
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton...-Audio-230-500

there's some questionability in audio circles of it not being 'as good' because it doesn't come from a lineage known for high end car-specific audio gear, and the brand leans towards the budget-oriented side of things instead of the 'no-holds-barred-gimme-your-kids-college-money' audio elitism that other brands pricing specifies for 'ultimate' sound quality.

but overall, it's a very powerful unit for $200-- getting the bluetooth dongle makes it extremely easy to tweak from any listening position, in any number of imaginable ways that one would or could ever need to adjust the system to their specific preferences.

before either option existed, i spent well into the $2-3k range on a fully custom car computer to do the same thing with 4 times the effort at every step, so a $200 device that does all of that, and more, is well worth it to me.
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Old 10-13-2021, 03:13 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86 View Post
I added some information on the stock speakers in this thread here:

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...?t=7843&page=5

Not sure if this was what you were looking for though.

And your welcome on the DIY. I spent quite a bit of time on that to get it just right as to require no further questions needing to be asked.

You say there is no midrange in your system, if I may ask: Are your dash midrange drivers in place and working?
Thanks for the info on the stock speakers in the thread. The dash midrange are in place but while they seem to perform on simple tracks (i.e., Joe Walsh's "Lifes Been Good' songs with multiple tracks don't fare as well).


There's not a lot of installers near me so this is a DIY job. Learning as fast as I can but in just the past 24 hrs I've ditched the plan to move the oem door woofers to the back. Presently, opting for an single after market amplifier that can drive a spare tire enclosed subwoofer.

Last edited by blueskiesgreenlights; 10-13-2021 at 03:26 AM.
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Old 10-13-2021, 03:25 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundman98 View Post
both of those audiocontrol units are well known, and will work. however, i would recommend another alternative.

minidsp is just as highly regarded as audiocontrol, and for a similar price, offers a dsp unit with significant adjustability that the audiocontrol modules don't have. personally, being able to adjust settings from the listening position instead of having to listen, run around, tweak, run back around, and re-listen, repeat, is worth the cost of entry alone. the phase adjustments also have proven to be useful in multi-driver setups as well.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/car...-dsp/c-dsp-6x8

personally, i use the dayton audio variation of dsp
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton...-Audio-230-500

there's some questionability in audio circles of it not being 'as good' because it doesn't come from a lineage known for high end car-specific audio gear, and the brand leans towards the budget-oriented side of things instead of the 'no-holds-barred-gimme-your-kids-college-money' audio elitism that other brands pricing specifies for 'ultimate' sound quality.

but overall, it's a very powerful unit for $200-- getting the bluetooth dongle makes it extremely easy to tweak from any listening position, in any number of imaginable ways that one would or could ever need to adjust the system to their specific preferences.

before either option existed, i spent well into the $2-3k range on a fully custom car computer to do the same thing with 4 times the effort at every step, so a $200 device that does all of that, and more, is well worth it to me.
I'm not familiar with minidsp but I will definitely learn about the company and products. My main interest in audiocontrol is that they market a line specifically for factory HU. Thanks.

Last edited by blueskiesgreenlights; 10-13-2021 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 10-13-2021, 10:08 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueskiesgreenlights View Post
Thanks for the info on the stock speakers in the thread. The dash midrange are in place but while they seem to perform on simple tracks (i.e., Joe Walsh's "Lifes Been Good' songs with multiple tracks don't fare as well).


There's not a lot of installers near me so this is a DIY job. Learning as fast as I can but in just the past 24 hrs I've ditched the plan to move the oem door woofers to the back. Presently, opting for an single after market amplifier that can drive a spare tire enclosed subwoofer.

Your plans will probably change a couple of times before you make your final decision, certainly mine did, but I agree with @soundman98 in that having a DSP that you don't have to continually run back and forth to make adjustments is a much better solution. DSP is a godsend to car audio nowadays. All of the equipment in my current setup is aftermarket, including my Pioneer DEX-P99RS head unit which has four-way active network capabilities and built in DSP that automatically sets itself up compensating as best it can for the listening environment. It just needs a bit of manual adjustment afterwards.

For highs, just yesterday I installed some Kicker pod-mount 3/4" tweeters mounting them to the dash speaker grills and have them bandpassed between 5kHz to 16kHz at 24db/octave on both ends. See here,
Name:  IMG_20211013_090346246~2.jpg
Views: 33
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Name:  IMG_20211013_090315551~2.jpg
Views: 31
Size:  536.2 KB

For mid-range, I have some Dayton Audio 3-1/2" drivers in the factory dash locations which are bandpassed between 2kHz and 5kHz at 24db/octave on both ends.

For mid-bass in the doors, I have some Dayton Audio 6-1/2" drivers bandpassed between 100Hz and 2kHz at 24db/octave on both ends.

My 12" first generation Orion, dual two-ohm voice coil HCCA subwoofer is mounted in a custom-built sealed enclosure handling the low frequencies bandpassed between 20 Hz and 100Hz at 24db/octave on both ends.

All of these components are amplified using Cerwin Vega Stealth Bomber amplifiers. The B54 four-channel amp is handling the tweeters and dash midrange drivers, the B52 two-channel amp is handling the door mid-bass drivers, and the B51 mono-block amplifier is handling the subwoofer.

I have left the rear speakers disconnected in this setup, as I really don't need them.

It sounds fantastic. I'm not going for SPL on this build, this is a sound quality build with Boom Mat in the inner and outer door skins for sound deadening.

Coming back to your situation, have you looked at Audio Control's amplifiers with their DSP built in? Here is their six-channel amplifier which may be of interest to you,

Name:  Screenshot_20211013-083717~2.jpg
Views: 31
Size:  178.8 KB

This will accept speaker-level inputs such as the ones from your head unit, which would substitute for the line output converter that you mentioned earlier, process the input, which would substitute for the digital EQ that you also mentioned earlier and give you much more control over the sound and would also add 125 watts per channel on six outputs, with a separate processed subwoofer line output. This would simplify your setup a great deal. You could amplify all of your front speakers and send the processed subwoofer signal to another amp for a subwoofer in the spare tire well, and you can set it all up with a laptop or phone app.
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Originally Posted by Mr.ac View Post
My pubes are shaped like the number 86. There for I知 car. Derp
Count to muffens and call again.
I知 40. So....... say hi to your sisters or daughters.
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Old 10-13-2021, 11:29 PM   #7
blueskiesgreenlights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86 View Post
Your plans will probably change a couple of times before you make your final decision, certainly mine did, but I agree with @soundman98 in that having a DSP that you don't have to continually run back and forth to make adjustments is a much better solution. DSP is a godsend to car audio nowadays. All of the equipment in my current setup is aftermarket, including my Pioneer DEX-P99RS head unit which has four-way active network capabilities and built in DSP that automatically sets itself up compensating as best it can for the listening environment. It just needs a bit of manual adjustment afterwards.

For highs, just yesterday I installed some Kicker pod-mount 3/4" tweeters mounting them to the dash speaker grills and have them bandpassed between 5kHz to 16kHz at 24db/octave on both ends. See here,
Attachment 206056

Attachment 206057

For mid-range, I have some Dayton Audio 3-1/2" drivers in the factory dash locations which are bandpassed between 2kHz and 5kHz at 24db/octave on both ends.

For mid-bass in the doors, I have some Dayton Audio 6-1/2" drivers bandpassed between 100Hz and 2kHz at 24db/octave on both ends.

My 12" first generation Orion, dual two-ohm voice coil HCCA subwoofer is mounted in a custom-built sealed enclosure handling the low frequencies bandpassed between 20 Hz and 100Hz at 24db/octave on both ends.

All of these components are amplified using Cerwin Vega Stealth Bomber amplifiers. The B54 four-channel amp is handling the tweeters and dash midrange drivers, the B52 two-channel amp is handling the door mid-bass drivers, and the B51 mono-block amplifier is handling the subwoofer.

I have left the rear speakers disconnected in this setup, as I really don't need them.

It sounds fantastic. I'm not going for SPL on this build, this is a sound quality build with Boom Mat in the inner and outer door skins for sound deadening.

Coming back to your situation, have you looked at Audio Control's amplifiers with their DSP built in? Here is their six-channel amplifier which may be of interest to you,

Attachment 206058

This will accept speaker-level inputs such as the ones from your head unit, which would substitute for the line output converter that you mentioned earlier, process the input, which would substitute for the digital EQ that you also mentioned earlier and give you much more control over the sound and would also add 125 watts per channel on six outputs, with a separate processed subwoofer line output. This would simplify your setup a great deal. You could amplify all of your front speakers and send the processed subwoofer signal to another amp for a subwoofer in the spare tire well, and you can set it all up with a laptop or phone app.
Thanks, FR-S2GT86, you're the best! Just placed an order for the D-6.1200. Normally, I'd spend days researching something like this but given the knowledge you've shown in so many posts and the fact that prices are spiking along with scarcities, I made an executive decision and pulled the trigger. Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated.
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Old 10-14-2021, 02:44 AM   #8
FR-S2GT86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueskiesgreenlights View Post
Thanks, FR-S2GT86, you're the best! Just placed an order for the D-6.1200. Normally, I'd spend days researching something like this but given the knowledge you've shown in so many posts and the fact that prices are spiking along with scarcities, I made an executive decision and pulled the trigger. Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I certainly don't claim to know it all, that would make me......well......a know-it-all, but I know enough to have been able to do this professionally for a few years and have done all my own installs and some for family members and a few friends over the years. I've always enjoyed helping others make their sound systems sound even better.

There's a lot to learn in this industry for sure. I would recommend heading over to the Audio Frog website

https://www.audiofrog.com/crossover-...re-protection/

where Andy Wehmeyer has several tech tips and articles on all sorts of audio related subjects.

My main suggestion with your amplifier purchase is to read everything that Audio Control supplies you and don't be afraid to contact their tech support if you feel the need. They also have product training videos out on YouTube.

And we'll be around if you have any questions.
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My pubes are shaped like the number 86. There for I知 car. Derp
Count to muffens and call again.
I知 40. So....... say hi to your sisters or daughters.
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