09-06-2022, 11:04 PM | #1191 | |
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For hydrogen, to support desalination and electrolysis for hydrogen production, there would need to be massive infrastructure, and because hydrogen is far less efficient than BEVs, we would need to make far more renewable infrastructure for electricity generation, and then the gas stations would need to be converted to support hydrogen fuel, and that is far more expensive than putting up superchargers and plugging cars into the grid in a garage at home and work.
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09-07-2022, 10:47 AM | #1192 | |
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09-07-2022, 10:50 AM | #1193 |
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The tech for EVs is evolving daily. They can be a long term solution it will just take a bit to get there.
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09-07-2022, 01:50 PM | #1194 | ||
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At this point, I'd take either as long as the infrastructure is close to reasonable. Unfortunately that leaves hydrogen out.
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09-07-2022, 02:36 PM | #1195 | ||
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09-07-2022, 02:48 PM | #1196 |
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Like batteries? The challenges are no different really it is just that batteries received the focus and is where the money has gone so they won.
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09-07-2022, 06:36 PM | #1197 | |
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Hydrogen will always be less efficient than BEVs, so that is a hurdle that is impossible to overcome. Electricity can be produced through renewables and stored in batteries to be used in cars, or electricity can be used to produce hydrogen, and then the hydrogen can be used to produce electricity again to put into a battery to run the car. This is like Rube Goldberg system. Just simplify. The hurdles for hydrogen is the inherent need for more infrastructure to desalinate water, to produce hydrogen and to deliver/store/transport hydrogen, and there is a need for even more renewables than BEVs. Just comparing the efficiency of 73% versus 22%, we would need to produce 3.3x the amount of renewable energy to produce enough hydrogen to produce enough electricity to match the output of BEVs. For BEVs, the main two problems are range and materials. Hydrogen fixes the range for planes or ships or off-road vehicles, but it isn't necessary for passenger vehicles or semis with high-density, solid state batteries and battery swapping. Sodium sulfur batteries will fix the range and materials issues. When swapping catches on and becomes modular and probably standardized, batteries will be even smaller.
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09-07-2022, 06:44 PM | #1198 |
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09-07-2022, 07:19 PM | #1199 | |
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09-07-2022, 07:43 PM | #1200 | ||
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https://theconversation.com/what-big...n-words-170642 I'm not against nuclear because it is green, but the reality is that it is extremely expensive upfront cost, the plants take a long time to make, there are huge government (at every level) obstacles that delay production, no one wants it in their backyard, there is the question of the long and safe storage of nuclear waste, there is the risk of meltdowns, there is a risk of terrorism, and there is probably more. Companies trying to maximize their profit do the bare minimum to prepare and maintain the facilities, which is always concerning. If an accident occurs, it could leave an area uninhabitable like Chernobyl. Governments typically need to subsidize the investment, but even then, investors may not see a return for decades, so they would rather put their money into solar or wind, which has dropped significantly and is faster to market and faster to get a return on their investment.
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09-11-2022, 02:38 PM | #1201 |
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Energy. Density.
Vehicles do not have unlimited space and mass. Paper from 2014 and likely a bit biased toward hydrogen, but it illustrates the idea. https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcell...icles-compared |
09-11-2022, 08:49 PM | #1202 | ||||
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The battery density has probably improved, and they didn’t consider packaging. Previously, BEVs were ICE vehicles retrofitted with batteries. The skateboard design utilizes the battery as a structural component of the car, which reduces weight, and the packs and modules are far more efficiently built into the vehicles without the bracketry needed to mount inverters and other components into conventional engine bays. I think if you compare the cargo capacity of the Model S and Mirai, the Tesla would have more, so the topic of storage predates the skateboard design, which is very compact. Power and performance seems to be well managed despite their statements. The Mirai goes 9.2 sec to 60, and 7.4 on the mark II, but this is much slower than the Model S standard at 4.2 sec. End of life GHG emissions for BEVs are less than HCEVs, even if hydrogen was produced from renewables, so they are wrong there too. Part of the problem are the conversion losses, and the other problem was the energy density improvements and vehicle weight. Cost is comparable or favoring the BEVs when we base things off performance. The energy density of new sodium/lithium sulfur batteries is on a different scale and makes this paper even more outdated. The recent discovery of a stable lithium sulfur battery with greater charge cycles. These batteries aren’t going to have 8x the range, but expect huge improvements to range. Sodium sulfur batteries have excellent power density and have shown to have 5,000 cycles making them twice that of lithium ion. Quote:
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10-28-2022, 04:32 PM | #1203 |
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Why hydrogen ICEs are probably not going to work for many people:
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12-22-2022, 05:11 PM | #1204 |
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