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GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


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Old 10-10-2022, 08:42 AM   #967
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Old 10-10-2022, 09:47 AM   #968
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Good datapoint for sure but just want to note that pressure drop does not equate to added engine/bearing wear. This was heavily debated for the need for an oil cooler for tracked FA20 during high oil temp use. Lots of great UOA from these “low oil pressure FA20” survives to this day after being pounded at the track.

In addition, pressure difference can be a result of different oil brand, new/old oil, new/oil filter. Still too many variables.
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Old 10-11-2022, 10:47 AM   #969
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Good datapoint for sure but just want to note that pressure drop does not equate to added engine/bearing wear. This was heavily debated for the need for an oil cooler for tracked FA20 during high oil temp use. Lots of great UOA from these “low oil pressure FA20” survives to this day after being pounded at the track.

In addition, pressure difference can be a result of different oil brand, new/old oil, new/oil filter. Still too many variables.
I believe in the comments I read 0w-20 and factory filters were used.
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Old 10-11-2022, 11:14 AM   #970
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I believe in the comments I read 0w-20 and factory filters were used.
There is a wide range of actual weights even if it's labeled 0-20. And used oil wear (sheering) hence it's normal for new oil to have higher viscosity thus higher pressures.
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Old 10-11-2022, 01:46 PM   #971
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Old 10-11-2022, 02:11 PM   #972
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Interesting design. I guess it snaps onto the existing pick up to give it a larger filter area. It's like an extension/steroid to the redesigned pick up. lol

What kind of plastic is this made from? Can it handle the high heat? What kind of testing was done on this?
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Old 10-11-2022, 02:22 PM   #973
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Is it possible to have the strainer closer to the drain port in case you need to suction/scrap off some RTV without removing the pan in the future.


also do we need a strainer at all? wouldn't the oil pump just chew up any RTV into little bitty pieces that should easily pass through the main oil passage into the oil filter. If you big metal pieces that you need the strainer for then you're kinda already screwed no?

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Old 10-11-2022, 02:22 PM   #974
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Originally Posted by Petah78 View Post
Good datapoint for sure but just want to note that pressure drop does not equate to added engine/bearing wear. This was heavily debated for the need for an oil cooler for tracked FA20 during high oil temp use. Lots of great UOA from these “low oil pressure FA20” survives to this day after being pounded at the track.

In addition, pressure difference can be a result of different oil brand, new/old oil, new/oil filter. Still too many variables.
I have the same pressure drop at RPM. I suspect it could be the the pressure transducer placement though others have commented on it and suspected pump cavitation on the FA before.

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What kind of plastic is this made from? Can it handle the high heat? What kind of testing was done on this?
Thermoset plastics will burn before they melt. As long as it is stable for use in oil should be no worries. Likely nylon, sample looks 3d printed.
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Old 10-11-2022, 04:34 PM   #975
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Interesting design. I guess it snaps onto the existing pick up to give it a larger filter area. It's like an extension/steroid to the redesigned pick up. lol
The open area of the holes is larger than the OEM pickup's mesh, but chunks of RTV as shown in this thread will definitely be stopped by this pre-filter. Tough to see, but the external surface is also not flat (OEM is flat), so when the engine stops chunks can more easily fall away than on a flat surface vs stick to it. And being all external, much easier to clean than using a borescope, mirrors, and picks. There is also a LOT more open area on this pre-filter, so it would take a lot more RTV stuck to it before it will have any significant effect on flow.


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What kind of plastic is this made from? Can it handle the high heat? What kind of testing was done on this?
Auto/Oil rated grade of Nylon. We've used them a lot from AOS', water pump inlets, and oil pans. The newer printing materials and process capabilities have come a long way. I never would have dreamed of bolting on printed plastic parts for real world testing 25 years ago!


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Is it possible to have the strainer closer to the drain port in case you need to suction/scrap off some RTV without removing the pan in the future.


also do we need a strainer at all? wouldn't the oil pump just chew up any RTV into little bitty pieces that should easily pass through the main oil passage into the oil filter. If you big metal pieces that you need the strainer for then you're kinda already screwed no?
There is an internal filter in the OEM pickup that can clog with debris. Large pieces never make it to the pump/filter.


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I have the same pressure drop at RPM. I suspect it could be the the pressure transducer placement though others have commented on it and suspected pump cavitation on the FA before.
AVCS. IIRC it's ~5K RPMs (under load/WOT) where the cams transition. The oil feed that supplies AVCS draws more oil, and the system pressure drops some. All Subaru AVCS engines do this: EJ20/25, FA20/24. The only time pressure climbs fairly linear with RPM is when AVCS is deleted.

These pumps don't cavitate, at least not up to 10K RPMs. Aeration typically happens when the pump is bigger than the lubrication system is designed for... Like putting an oversized pump on a stock (or built to stock specs) block. That only pushes more oil through the bypass valve, eventually aerating.
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Old 10-11-2022, 06:14 PM   #976
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AVCS. IIRC it's ~5K RPMs (under load/WOT) where the cams transition. The oil feed that supplies AVCS draws more oil, and the system pressure drops some. All Subaru AVCS engines do this: EJ20/25, FA20/24. The only time pressure climbs fairly linear with RPM is when AVCS is deleted.

These pumps don't cavitate, at least not up to 10K RPMs. Aeration typically happens when the pump is bigger than the lubrication system is designed for... Like putting an oversized pump on a stock (or built to stock specs) block. That only pushes more oil through the bypass valve, eventually aerating.
Ahhh, that makes total sense. Mine seems to do it about 5800 but my AVCS tables are a bit different.
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Old 10-11-2022, 06:51 PM   #977
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Kevin Vo's video he posted today on the FTspeed channel, on the partial engine tare-down has some good visuals on the excess RTV in other parts of the engine, like the timing cover and valve covers. It makes me think that dropping the pan to redo the RTV might be a bit pointless considering how much excess RTV is on the other larger surfaces.
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Old 10-11-2022, 07:06 PM   #978
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and discuss...



Is the oil level always above the top of the strainer? What happens if the oil level drops below the top? I assume nothing good. This design seems like it would be a lot more resistant to RTV clogging, but maybe more prone to issues with low oil levels or high g's and sloshing? Or maybe not, not my area of expertise.
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Old 10-11-2022, 07:36 PM   #979
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Is the oil level always above the top of the strainer?
It should be.


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What happens if the oil level drops below the top?
This pre-filter doesn't change how the pickup works at all, regardless of level.

In theory, the holes should reduce the probability of funneling (which is how starvation starts when the level drops really low) and reduce the likelihood of starvation under severe cornering loads.
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Old 10-11-2022, 07:42 PM   #980
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It should be.




This pre-filter doesn't change how the pickup works at all, regardless of level.

In theory, the holes should reduce the probability of funneling (which is how starvation starts when the level drops really low) and reduce the likelihood of starvation under severe cornering loads.
Wait, does the pickup extend down into the area behind the strainer? It looks like it does and I missed that the first time looking at it. You can really only see it in the second picture. If the pickup itself extends down inside the strained area then disregard my concerns.
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