Drove a PDK today...

[serialk11r]

Honestly, it's not much different from the manual mode in a Mazda 3. The gearbox doesn't instantly shift when you push the button though the gearshifts are frighteningly fast. In sport mode it was a bit better, maybe it's just in my head but I thought there was some lag too, but maybe it's just since I'm used to a manual gearbox. It's hard to tell what gear you're in since it shifts down automatically when you slow down, so I found myself staring down at the gear indicator all the time which was really distracting.

Also, the car creeps forward without applying the gas and even fights the brakes a little bit as you roll (though hard brake application causes the clutch to completely release), this can't possibly be good for the clutch can it? I know it's a wet clutch but still...really creepy.

I'd rather have a mechanical linkage to the gearbox and control my own clutch even if it's slower. I'd like to see technology developed around that, rather than technology designed to replace more and more of it.

On a different note, 12lbs/hp gets you above the speed limit a lot faster than 16lbs/hp does.

EDIT: A 981 Cayman 2.7L

[dem00n]

What model?

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by dem00n

What model?

981 Cayman 2.7, 18" wheels PDK no sport chrono, no PASM, normal exhaust.

[Trashed675]

I've driven a couple dual clutches (Lancer ralliart, newer Jetta tdi, 08 golf R32), and they've all shifted very quickly, but on their own terms. Obviously this is so you dont damage anything, but I dont like having to ask permission for a gear change.

My transmission preference goes: CVT-standard auto-dual clutch-manual in that order.

[Powersfrs]

I have an a/t frs n the shifts are pretty fast..but than I drove a 13' boxster s n boy the PDK is way wayyy faster but yes just like my frs it brings the gears down as u slowdown so to prevent the engine from stalling

[86-tundra]

drove a ferrari california once, which had the dual clutch system. it was so fast that I forgot to shift at times. Seemed very responsive when I was paying attention, however. Not a fan of the idea that it shifts for you if necessary, though

[DarkSunrise]

My mk6 GTI has a DSG transmission. It's an impressive piece of technology, but only in the right setting. On the plus side, upshifts are nearly instantaneous with the paddle and happen so quickly people usually describe the acceleration as seamless or locomotive-like. DSG actually pairs really well with turbo applications because you don't lose boost between shifts. On the track, you can keep the transmission in "sport" mode and forget about it. It is that good. It will simply keep the engine in the lowest possible gear at all times, downshifting aggressively when you're on the brakes.

The downside is that the DSG can be clunky in day-to-day driving. If you do something the transmission doesn't expect, which is not infrequent in traffic, it will be clunky or laggy. For example, if you're coasting to a stop in 1st, then suddenly stomp on the gas, bad move. The transmission will be in the process of disengaging the clutch, and it will feel like an eternity before you feel it re-engage the clutch and give you acceleration. Not good when you're trying to slot into a small opening in traffic. In a worst-case scenario, you will feel and hear a huge clunk, and will swear someone just rear-ended you.

You eventually figure out the DSG shift and clutch logic, and learn the limits of what it can and can't do, but some people would argue that a good automatic transmission shouldn't force you to re-learn how to drive. I think that's a fair point, but still think it's impressive nonetheless.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

My mk6 GTI has a DSG transmission. It's an impressive piece of technology, but only in the right setting. On the plus side, upshifts are nearly instantaneous with the paddle and happen so quickly people usually describe the acceleration as seamless or locomotive-like. DSG actually pairs really well with turbo applications because you don't lose boost between shifts. On the track, you can keep the transmission in "sport" mode and forget about it. It is that good. It will simply keep the engine in the lowest possible gear at all times, downshifting aggressively when you're on the brakes.

The downside is that the DSG can be clunky in day-to-day driving. If you do something the transmission doesn't expect, which is not infrequent in traffic, it will be clunky or laggy. For example, if you're coasting to a stop in 1st, then suddenly stomp on the gas, bad move. The transmission will be in the process of disengaging the clutch, and it will feel like an eternity before you feel it re-engage the clutch and give you acceleration. Not good when you're trying to slot into a small opening in traffic. In a worst-case scenario, you will feel and hear a huge clunk, and will swear someone just rear-ended you.

You eventually figure out the DSG shift and clutch logic, and learn the limits of what it can and can't do, but some people would argue that a good automatic transmission shouldn't force you to re-learn how to drive. I think that's a fair point, but still think it's impressive nonetheless.

Agreed. My MKVI GTI (DSG) was awesome, except in traffic where I spent most of my driving time. It would jerk around between 1st and 2nd very annoyingly. The upside was when there was no traffic...blipping through the gears that quickly was so much fun.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Agreed. My MKVI GTI (DSG) was awesome, except in traffic where I spent most of my driving time. It would jerk around between 1st and 2nd very annoyingly. The upside was when there was no traffic...blipping through the gears that quickly was so much fun.

Haha we're all wannabe, floppy-paddle F1 drivers at heart

[serialk11r]

Yea I think it might have been my unfamiliarity, but I honestly think leaving these cars in automatic mode is better, pull the downshift button when you want power otherwise let it do it's own thing. The one thing I do like is the auto blipping on downshifting, the engine instantly slams the throttle wide open and makes a wonderful crackle whereas on a manual transmission you have to give the gas a pretty dramatic jab for the same effect that causes the occasional passenger to wonder what is wrong with your car :p

I think I'm actually a bigger fan of cvt autos because they adjust the engine rpm very very fast as you move your foot. The actual shifting is slower but the shift logic is very predictable and sensible.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[Sasquachulator]

I never understood why DSG/PDK/dual clutch/etc were so much more praised than automatic....


I mean, Automatic is automatic and older ones were absolutely crap when it came to the paddle shifters (flick, lag, shift). But something like the FRS (when driven at speed) or a Lexus ISF the paddles were pretty responsive, click and it shifts.


Is it just cuz its a bit more responsive when flicking the paddles at speed? I mean slow and steady its still laggy gayomatic territory (flick, lag, shift).


The only thing I really noticed from a DSG transmission (my sis has a 2013 GTI DSG) is that it acts/feels more like a manual in standard drive mode, but I dont have to shift since the computer does it.


Or is it just that no one really programs their automatic transmissions like Toyota has in the FRS/ISF and they all suck balls when it comes to the paddles?

[Sport-Tech]

The ZF 8 speed in current BMWs wins a lot of praise for its rapid shifting, but those that have also driven the DCT units in the M cars still prefer the DCTs; they have a more direct, visceral feel that better suits a sports-oriented vehicle, and they are more immediately responsive.

[fripsgirl]

Manual transmission is on it's way out, unfortunately. Some newer model marques are no longer offered in a stick. I have a vintage car that is manual and requires double-clutching/3 pedaling to properly slip into gears, so I have my fill.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

I never understood why DSG/PDK/dual clutch/etc were so much more praised than automatic....

Really comes down to performance, efficiency and feel for me. Speaking for the GTI:

Performance
- Much quicker shifts (seamless at WOT)
- No loss of boost between shifts
- Integrated launch control
- Result: DSG is ~0.5 seconds faster 0-60 than manual (5.8 s vs. 6.3)

Efficiency
- No power wasted on a torque converter
- Result: DSG gets 24/32 vs 21/31 for manual

Feel
- Quick downshifts when DSG expects them
- Locomotive-like acceleration
- Paddles that respond instantly
- Result: Car feels smooth and responsive

With the GTI, you really have to be flogging it hard to fully appreciate how good the DSG is. It wasn't until I did a trackday with it that I realized how good it was, but it should put a smile on your face on backroads as well.

That said, I would always choose a proper manual over it.

EDIT: Looking over that, it's more of a manual vs. DSG comparison. For DSG vs. traditional automatics, it should be largely the same. You get performance and effiency gains from eliminating the torque converter. And in terms of feel, I haven't found an automatic that feels as crisp or responsive as a DSG. I've extensively driven automatics in a 2014 V6 Mustang, w204 C300, 1st gen TSX, new Altima, etc.