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Old 03-01-2021, 09:23 AM   #1
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Talking American enthusiasts hate manuals (lies!)

" Porsche spokesperson Luke Vandezande says America's take rate for the 6-speed manual GT3 is an astonishing 70%. Not only that, but the global manual take rate for the GT3 doesn't even come close, at just 30%. "

Further proof that US sports car buyers want manual transmissions more than anyone else!

" For Subaru BRZ buyers, 78% opt for a manual, but for the nearly identical Toyota 86, only 33% do so."

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/02/28/...ual-take-rate/
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Old 03-01-2021, 09:41 AM   #2
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manuals require extra effort. we had to institute laws mandating backup cameras and additional safety systems so people wouldn't need to expound the extra effort to be aware of their surroundings and stop running over others.

there's no shock to this for me.
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Old 03-01-2021, 10:10 AM   #3
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what about the manual take rate for non-sports cars?
The ones that sell thousands of times more than sports cars?
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Old 03-01-2021, 11:10 AM   #4
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what about the manual take rate for non-sports cars?
The ones that sell thousands of times more than sports cars?
Those come in somplace around the 2% mark so don't look to them to bring the numbers up! There are very, very few non "sports" models that even offer MT anymore.
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Old 03-01-2021, 11:23 AM   #5
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Porsche needs to address their gearing then maybe they'd sell more manuals. This is what I've been told, not my personal experience
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Old 03-01-2021, 11:57 AM   #6
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Porsche needs to address their gearing then maybe they'd sell more manuals. This is what I've been told, not my personal experience
Agreed. I wouldnít want to buy a manual either if I only could use 2nd and 3rd with 4-6th as overdrive gears, and that is in a Cayman. The 911ís have seven gears. Iím not surprised the GT3 with a 6-speed is popular.

I agree with the OP that there may be more enthusiasm for manuals than manufacturers are aware. Even with regular cars, part of the problem is the dealer network. Part of the problem is the manufacturers only offering a manual on base trims; no wonder they donít sell. Part of it is because the manual transmissions suck so much on commuting cars. There are 0-60 times to consider too and profits and fuel economy and bla bla bla besides driver apathy.
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Old 03-01-2021, 12:35 PM   #7
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Those come in somplace around the 2% mark so don't look to them to bring the numbers up! There are very, very few non "sports" models that even offer MT anymore.
Sad times indeed. If you go onto manufacturer websites and do a build and price, hardly anything is available in manual, and if they do it is usually offered on lower trim only.

It was a PITA when I was looking for my girlfriend. She wanted 2020 leftover stock, couldn't be silver, white, grey or black, needed to be a sedan and stick.

I searched every dealer in the city and found about 5-10 manual sedans, and one was blue. Guess what she bought.(fortunately it was one I thought she would like the most)
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Old 03-01-2021, 01:21 PM   #8
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Agreed. I wouldnít want to buy a manual either if I only could use 2nd and 3rd with 4-6th as overdrive gears, and that is in a Cayman. The 911ís have seven gears. Iím not surprised the GT3 with a 6-speed is popular.

I agree with the OP that there may be more enthusiasm for manuals than manufacturers are aware. Even with regular cars, part of the problem is the dealer network. Part of the problem is the manufacturers only offering a manual on base trims; no wonder they donít sell. Part of it is because the manual transmissions suck so much on commuting cars. There are 0-60 times to consider too and profits and fuel economy and bla bla bla besides driver apathy.
Don't think the dealers, manufactuers or profits have anything to do with it.
There are still loads of manual cars sold elsewhere in the world. The bulk of the Americian public just doesn't care about MT no matter what trim level the car is. They have not cared in several decades now so why would you expect the manufacturers to build them?
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Old 03-01-2021, 01:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2 View Post
Porsche needs to address their gearing then maybe they'd sell more manuals. This is what I've been told, not my personal experience
Porsche intentionally messed with the Cayman's gearing. (to make it less desirable than 911s? I dunno). The first 3 gears are extra tall, 4th is pretty normal, and 5th and 6th are shorter than you'd expect. Somewhat annoying. 6th gear combined with the final drive is barely taller than a BRZ.
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Old 03-01-2021, 02:53 PM   #10
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100% of Civic Si and Type R are sold with a manual transmission!!! #manualswillneverdie

















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Old 03-01-2021, 03:03 PM   #11
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In 2019, U.S. buyers purchased more EVs then manual transmission cars. It wasn't even close. The margin was +50% for EVs per the Robb Report.

Writings on the wall, fans. Buy 'em now while you can.
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Old 03-01-2021, 06:04 PM   #12
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Don't think the dealers, manufactuers or profits have anything to do with it.
There are still loads of manual cars sold elsewhere in the world. The bulk of the Americian public just doesn't care about MT no matter what trim level the car is. They have not cared in several decades now so why would you expect the manufacturers to build them?
Dealers historically were incentivized to up-sell an automatic because they were more expensive. Manufacturers are incentivized to sell cars with the best gas mileage, which is currently CVTs and 9-speed automatics. Look at the cars that are offered with a manual, and chances are the cars are only offered in the base trim or lowest trim levels. This is because manuals were deemed to be for those who are budget conscious. It is also why some countries still have a high take for manual transmissions--$1,500 extra for an automatic can be a lot.

I'm not saying there isn't less demand today than in the past; there is definitely less demand. Even if every model and every trim offered a manual transmission, the automatics would have more demand today than in the past and more demand than the manual too. Partially this is because a manual has a higher learning curve. Partially this is because the automatics have gotten so much better, and even are better than manuals from a performance perspective. Partially this is because American's commute a lot and like their autos in bumper to bumper traffic.

What I am saying is that the demand for manual transmissions is higher than the 2% of non-sports cars that get sold with a manual. What I am saying is that there are obstacles getting into a manual, so demand is higher than the take rate. See below:

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/12...-transmission/

Quote:
Of the men and women surveyed for the study, a whopping 66 percent knew how to drive a manual transmission, while another 55 percent say they have owned or leased a car with a manual transmission at least once before.

Interest in learning how to drive a manual transmission car is also high among those who aren’t currently capable of doing so. Of survey participants who said they did not know how to row their own gears, 40 percent said they are somewhat or very interested in learning. Interest in driving or learning how to drive a manual is also higher among those with $75,000 or more in annual household income (64 percent) and among those in the coveted 18 to 34 age demographic (62 percent).
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Old 03-01-2021, 07:01 PM   #13
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Dealers historically were incentivized to up-sell an automatic because they were more expensive. Manufacturers are incentivized to sell cars with the best gas mileage, which is currently CVTs and 9-speed automatics. Look at the cars that are offered with a manual, and chances are the cars are only offered in the base trim or lowest trim levels. This is because manuals were deemed to be for those who are budget conscious. It is also why some countries still have a high take for manual transmissions--$1,500 extra for an automatic can be a lot.

I'm not saying there isn't less demand today than in the past; there is definitely less demand. Even if every model and every trim offered a manual transmission, the automatics would have more demand today than in the past and more demand than the manual too. Partially this is because a manual has a higher learning curve. Partially this is because the automatics have gotten so much better, and even are better than manuals from a performance perspective. Partially this is because American's commute a lot and like their autos in bumper to bumper traffic.

What I am saying is that the demand for manual transmissions is higher than the 2% of non-sports cars that get sold with a manual. What I am saying is that there are obstacles getting into a manual, so demand is higher than the take rate. See below:

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/12...-transmission/
Doesn't matter how many people know how to drive MT that doesn't mean they would buy them.
They stopped makin them because people stopped buying them. Simple.
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Old 03-01-2021, 07:12 PM   #14
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What I am saying is that the demand for manual transmissions is higher than the 2% of non-sports cars that get sold with a manual. What I am saying is that there are obstacles getting into a manual, so demand is higher than the take rate.
Actually, I don't believe there is a demand. There is a desire greater than 2% perhaps but even if it's twice as much, we are only talking 4% of car sales.

In the end, like a lot of products, there are those that will take it only one way (in this case, only MT or only AT) and there are those that take either,. I think the DEMAND is the 2% we see because you really have to go out of your way any more to get it.

The MT group isn't large enough for a manufacturer to care. They aren't losing sales because they don't have an MT (or if they are its a rounding error). They will lose potential sales if they do not have an AT on the lot, at least at the dealership level.

I'm in the AT/MT agnostic group. I can drive either, I'll buy either, and it really isn't a deciding factor in my car buying. In fact, the ONLY time I've intentionally selected the AT over the MT was with the 86, and that was only after a test drive at the Long Beach 86 event where I drove them back to back. The MT felt like any MT I had ever driven, but the AT was the best one I had ever driven, so I picked the AT.
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